Upon reader requests, I am creating this spot for general comments and questions. A place that will remain at the top for those of you wishing to leave comments in a fresh place sure to be viewed.
Anon 5:20 PM What do you care about how quickly Shiloh calls a pastor? Are you a member? Who appointed you and Sylvia Watts as overseers of this church's affairs? What Shiloh does or doesn't do is Shiloh's business. Maybe you both should limit your concerns to your own churches.
Dear James the media was notified,but obviously didn't think it was news worthy because it invovled grown women.As a matter of fact one of the news media's own was improperly harassed by Mr.Gilyard yet no coverage.The only reason the media decided to cover Darrell this time was due to children being invovled and after his arrest.The name of my ministry is Word of Life Community Church at 2424 Orchard St.Jacksonville,fl.on the West side.You are welcomed anytime.
Oh by the way James when Darrell had his first court date after his initial arrest,I was with Tiffany in the court room.If you check channel 12's news archives you may see me sitting next to her and escorting her thru the courthouse hall ways.The news media chose not to interveiw me,but the Florida Times Union did ask and record my name.
Kay thanks for the encouragement but I've got thick skin.In my short time as a Pastor I have learn to deal with people like James.I don't think he's a bad guy just expressing his point of veiw.Thank God for the freedom that we have in America to speak our mind.One other thing Mr.James Iam many things,but one thing Iam not....And thats a coward!!!!
Pastor Rod, yes sir, that what I'm talking about. It's obvious you can handle yours. I will certainly welcome the opportunity to come support your ministry.
You are right, this is not a cat fight! I simply gave my view/opinion of the situation. Yes, we know HB really well, and have the upmost respect for him even as we had for his late Father.
I wonder why you might be argumentative when there is no need. I simply believe that based on the sermons I heard on your website that, Dr. Evans brings more experience, maturity, knowledge of the Word of God, and the academic background that I believe a church like Shiloh would want.
Don't be immature by thinking that I am posing as Mr. Cooper. I hope that the majority of Shiloh's membership isn't silly like this. Mr. Cooper is man enough to speak for himself. If you like, I can give you his e-mail and you can write him for yourself. The bottom line is you are a liar! No one contacted that pastor as he is a man of integrity and very clearly stated so.
We love HB, and if he is God's choice for Shiloh, then praise God! I only hope that the people treat him well even when the novelty and the honeymoon phase wear off.
Lastly, it is a darn shame that the Deacons would knowingly allow Pastor Gilyard to sleep with some of their wives and the wives of other men in the church and remain silent. What a pity! And, how evil can one get?
I really do wish Shiloh well in your pursuit (maybe I should have said God's pursuit) of a new pastor.
Very Sincerely Yours,
Mrs. Sylvia Watts (see, I signed my name, what's yours?)
Ms. watts why do you care? i think that Anon. did come of a little hard , but still if you know him so well , why are you on here saying the things that you are, why not speak with HB about your feelings or just start praying for us. I'm sorry but you do come off a little as not liking HB, so it is hard to take your words. Kim.
Anon 8:44 - LARGE does not necessarily mean BEST. DG built Shiloh up while doing terrible, unthinkable, evil acts toward women (and at least two teens).
As far as HB - there is no question that he is called of God to preach, and, as has been stated by those who know him, is a gifted preacher. But does he have the wisdom and experience to know how to handle the situation regarding DG at Shiloh?
Some may think this is a "non-issue," expecially those want to "just get on with things." But for the victims of DG--those who have come forward and those who have not--there will naturally arise concerns and questions of faith that could shake marriages--even destroy marriages. And beyond the marriages that will be destroyed, what about people's faith? There will be some who may not want to ever attend church again because of what DG did. This kind of thing (evil) messes with people.
How will HB handle that? How will the next leader of Shiloh (whoever it is) handle that? That should be a concern to Shiloh's leaders--if they are true shepherds of God's sheep.
A congegation that goes through what Shiloh has needs special care to get back on track in living the Christian life.
It's not about the size of the attendance or the amount of money. It's about whether the people of God are worshipping and doing the work of God. How will Shiloh get to a healthy state of spirituality as a church? In doing that, you must consider those members, the victims, who were hurt. They need to be restored before you can simply "move on." Need a Bible reference for doing that? Read I Corinthians 5; then go to Ephesians 4 and 5, among a host of other scripture references.
Mrs. Watts - Thank you for your input! It IS valued by many, both on this blog and at Shiloh.
James Junior - much of the problem in dealing with adult women who are vicitmized by a pastor is that the laws in most states do not prohibit such crimes. That's because of the larger law of "separation of church and state."
It is very difficult for an adult victim to take a pastor to court because the court doesn't normally have jurisdiction in such cases. Attorneys, however, are finding ways to get around the lack of laws, and are being successful in winning compensation to victims. And most insurance companies no longer insure against clergy sexual abuse cases. So, today, if a victim wins, the church has to pay without compensation from its insurance company.
Most states today have laws regarding child sexual abuse, regardless of who the perpetrator is, which is why the SA was able to arrest DG based on the evidence provided.
What we need, as a country, are for the laws regarding sexual abuse in the workplace to expand to include the clergy profession.
It's not that church leaders don't necessarily want to hold these pastor perpetrators accountable, many times their hands are tied, as was Pastor Rod's experience, and the deacon who anonymously confessed knowing of DG's doings regarding adult women on this blog.
However, today there are resources for churches where clergy sexual abuse happens. By law, churches are responsible for holding pastor perpetrators accountable, and should have a plan at the ready if this should ever happen. The Presbyterian Church has a great plan for holding its pastors accountable, and serves as a model to other churches. It would behoove any independent church, and especially any Southern Baptist Church, to look at the Presbyterian model. It's a good one.
(And please don't think I'm saying Shiloh is a SBC church--I know it's not.)
I am continuing to pray for all of the victims in this case, as well as the congregation of Shiloh, (and the congregants of First Timothy who are at risk), and especially Shiloh's deacons as you make extraordinary decisions in the weeks and months ahead.
Whoa! I think that is a great responsibilty to put on one person! Should the next pastor be responsible for everyone's marriage, everyone's healing etc. Not in my opinion. I don't know of many pastors who are prepared for such challenges esp. if you have not been directly involved in any such situations. I do think the pastor has responsibilty, but I don't know if I would say, my marriage broke up over this, so you fix it! Of course there will be a need for counseling for those who need it but many may need outside professional counseling. I believe the teens are already getting that.
As far as our spirituality as a church, I believe that although we know we had some serious problems to come to light and deal with, the fact that God is still on the throne, we have survived as a church, we may have lost some members but on the whole the faithful have remained. That is because our eyes were not on the man but on God himself! When you are focused on Him and know that in every area of life man will always disappoint and fail you, you don't have to curl up and die because of the evil that is in this world and the Bible tells us that we have yet to see what is to come.
I guess, for me, I am coming from this perspective, IS JESUS DEAD! We have available to us at all times, THE HEALER, THE COMFORTER, EVERLASTINg FATHER, THE GREAT I AM, the accolades go on and on! I truly hope that no one has been waiting on the next pastor to be installed before they can start healing and pressing forward. What an insult to God; 'Cast ALL your cares upon me'. That is what we are to do, so for the last 8 months that we have been without a pastor I hope and pray that everyone has been tapping into the power that is available to those who know and love the Lord!
To ALL SHILITES!! We only have a few more days until voting. Please pray for Gods' spiritual guidance and wisdom for the next pastor to lead our church. I believe that God is and will answer our sincere prayers!
How in the world did you guys go from supposedly talking about DG and the issues around him to talking about who is going to be the next pastor?
I know Reverend H. B. chrles, Jr. too! He is without question a tremendous preacher, and he is a very nice person as well. He is not perfect as none of us are.
I also know Dr. Evans from my days at Howard University. He is also a great preacher and even more of a great man! You couldn't go wrong from choosing either man in my opinion. That's all I have to say.
Anon 7/25 3:03pm you said, "...in every area of life man will always disappoint and fail you, you don't have to curl up and die because of the evil that is in this world ..." No, you don't curl up and die but you don't have to stay there and look evil in the face either.
To Kay 2:07pm: The evil leader that was there no longer is. As stated before, the leadership that brought DG to Shiloh 15 years ago, most of thsoe people are no longer there, deceased and/or no longer hold chairman positions. There have also been several new people placed in inkey positions that were not involved in any way with the DG regime. I believe this puts us in a good position to move forward. Also, we don't know what changes the new pastor may make when he gets here or who he may bring and/or hire as staff.
I agree with you anon,(post 7-23 5:20 pm), that what would it hurt if we wait for a few more weeks before we call a new pastor. But clearly the answer is that the church leaders already have THEIR man; a younger, not-well educated man, who has 17 years of experience. I know he has plans to further his education...but on the same note as anon (July 18th 1140am), "...if the pastor is not degreed, he should not expect to make a six figure salary...". We Shilites shall see...
What do you think we have to gain by waiting a few more weeks?
HB may not have completed formal seminary training(neither did DG) but I still feel that out of all the candidates we have seen, none of them did a better job preaching with all their training, than HB did. I would rather listen to him than most "educated" pastors I know. Education does not necessarily confer anointing. If GOD be for you, who can be against you!
You do know that you will have 3 choices: HB, Evans and neither. So you don't have to vote for either if you aren't happy with the choices.
Also, I don't necessarily agree that because you don't have a degree it means you can't ask for and get a 6-figure salary. I know people that do it in every walk of life; e.g. my mother works for a Fortune 500 company, never completed her degree but has a top position and salary that rivals many of the 30 yo college grads. She gets it because she is doggone good at what she does. GOD is GOOD!
Anon 4:11 - Have you been reading this blog? No one is saying HB is not a great preacher. Everyone agrees he is an excellent presenter of God's word, and is definitely called of God to preach.
The issue is not his ability in the pulpit to deliver an inspiring message. The issues are his credentials (or lack thereof), and his experience (or lack thereof), especially in light of the situation with dealing with victims who may still be attending Shiloh, and the upcoming trial in regard to DG. Throwing a young pastor into that kind of kettle with the water already boiling isn't fair to the young pastor. Experience and wisdom would be a great help to the head of Shiloh's leadership team.
I find it offensive that there are those on this blog who seem to have forgotten what happened at Shiloh under DG's leadership. Yes, the church "grew" and I'm sure the coffers expanded greatly under DG. But let's not forget the heinous acts that took place, and those who have suffered because of DG.
The new pastor, whoever he is, will have to deal with what DG left behind. If he doesn't, Shiloh will suffer. The Bible says every member in the body is important (cf. I Cor. 12:18-27).
I Cor. 12:26 says, "And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it...."
It seems Shiloh has been suffering for a long time under DG's leadership. Many members know that. Many who have left know that. And it seems there are many in Shiloh's leadership who are in denial about the suffering.
The new pastor needs to understand there are those in the Shiloh body who are suffering. And, as the deacon who confessed on this blog made known, the leadership has failed the women victims of DG by not adequately protecting them, believing them, ministering to them.
Yes, some might hope that any victims of DG will just move on to another church. You might even encourage them to do so by ostracizing them. That's one way to solve the "problem." But that's not the way of our Lord Jesus. Members vital to the Shiloh body are hurting. What will the new pastor bring to help those who are suffering?
It's not about preaching...it's about healing the body, and restoring Shiloh's body to unity and love in Christ Jesus so the work of the church can bring honor and glory to God.
I sure hope Shiloh makes the right decision in selecting a new pastor. This really is an important decision. It's vital.
There are those at Shiloh who want to just "move on." They're tired of all this DG stuff! They don't want to hear anything more about it. They just want to "get on with church" and have things go back to the way they were before we all knew about what DG was doing! If anyone reading this blog is in that camp, I implore you to reconsider your position, and give the selection of your new pastor thoughtful consideration as you pray. Do you want a leader who can merely tickle your ears, or do you want a pastor who can bring restoration, unity, and a new purpose and direction to Shiloh?
To the person who commented that; "Also, I don't necessarily agree that because you don't have a degree it means you can't ask for and get a 6-figure salary. I know people that do it in every walk of life; e.g. my mother works for a Fortune 500 company, never completed her degree but has a top position and salary that rivals many of the 30 yo college grads. She gets it because she is doggone good at what she does".
That's great and I'm sure your mom deserves it. However, did she make that on Day 1 with that Fortune 500company or did she have to "work" for it by meeting set-upon guidelines and proving that she was "good at her job" before the increase?
I see where you are coming from, but you are assuming he has no credentials or experience. I think 18 years would qualify as experience. Also for every person that made it with education ,I can show someone whom God used who didn't have education. God can use whomever He wants. Again, man looks at the outer appearance(age, stature,education, etc) but God looks at the heart!
Why do you assume he has no vision for the church? Why do you assume he will not be able to help heal and restore Shiloh thru the preaching of God's Word. It's not the man who needs to heal Shiloh, it's the Word of God. I have said this before, we have been with out a pastor for 8 months. I hope no one hurt or discouraged about what happened has been waiting for the next pastor to start healing and moving forward. That truly is an insult to God! He, after all, is THE HEALER and THE COMFORTER, and able to help and deliver in any way you need Him. I'm not quite sure why you feel the next pastor needs to deal with the trial. That is what the court system does, besides DG put himself in that place. The next pastor will need to keep Shiloh focused on the word of God.
I made the statement about my mother simply to show that God can use someone who didn't complete their college degree, or is young in age, or who has been abused, to do great and mighty things. God's power in your life does not have to be limited by those things. For every person that says HB is too young, I can show you in the Bible where God purposely chose and used someone considered by man to be too young. God uses the too young, the uneducated, the sinful, all can be used by HIM! Of course my mother had to work for it, just as we expect then next pastor to. But she would be the first to tell you, "I shouldn't be here".According to man, because she is not degreed, she shouldn't/wouldn't be. BUT GOD!!!
The fact of the matter is that we ARE going to vote on a new pastor tomorrow....we ARE going to move on and put what happened under Gilyard's leadership behind us. What purpose would it serve to linger and dwell on the past? We definitely haven't forgotten but we have chosen to let it go!!! His case is in the hands of God and the legal system.
If the direction in which Shiloh is moving bothers you.....maybe Shiloh is no longer the church for you. If you are not a member....what Shiloh decides to do shouldn't concern you...at all.
What specifically has HB done/said/promised in regard to his for Shiloh?
So far he has preached. And a lot of people--especially the church leaders apparently--really like his preaching. What did he preach about?
On his last visit, he preached about "forgiveness." Whether that was just "coincidental" or not, for him to choose that topic was inappropriate in light of the fact there are victims/survivors of DG listening to him. You would have to know and understand clergy sexual abuse to understand that. If you are ignorant of the damage that clergy sexual abuse creates, then you can't understand how a sermon on forgiveness could do more harm than good.
It's not that forgiveness is a bad subject, or that victims/survivors shouldn't forgive those who have hurt them. Ultimately, they should. But forgiveness needs to be up to the victim, not some preacher trying to guilt-trip her into forgiving before she's ready to forgive. It takes a lot of healing to get to the point that a victim/survivor of clergy sexual abuse can forgive. That can take years of hard work on her part, and the prayers and support of those around her.
So, for this uncredentialed, relatively inexperienced 35 year old preacher to come in and preach about forgiveness only demonstrates his lack in ministering to Shiloh. He totally disregarded the victims/survivors of DG. Those victims/survivors, as has been demonstrated by the Word of God (cf. I Cor. 12) are a vital part of Shiloh's congregation.
If HB is so great and capable of handling the situation at Shiloh, how is it that he disregarded the victims/survivors?
anon July 29, 2008 9:23 AM It sounds like you may be someone that was victimized by DG. If that is true then I pray that God comfort and sustain through your trials. I, and other members here have tremendous compassion for victims of clergy sexual abuse wherever it occurs. If that is not true then you sound very bitter. You have latched onto a sermon about forgiveness as if it is something that is applicable only to what happened at Shiloh. Are there not other areas in our lives where forgiveness is necessary? When Eph 4:32 said "And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you." it wasn't talking about DG or Shiloh. Is the subject of forgiveness taboo because of what happened at Shiloh? If so then what is the next thing to happen that the preacher will have to avoid sermonizing: murder, adultery, homosexuality, stealing, lying? God forbid that the man of God cannot preach the whole counsel of God because it offends.
It appears that your issue is HB: his preaching, credentials, age, experience, and everything else you find objectionable concerning him as a choice for pastor of Shiloh. If you are a member, vote your convictions. If not, what you say here won't effect the outcome one way or another.
anon 7/28/2008 4;11pm You said we would have 3 choices---HB, Evans, and neither. I thought we would have 3 candidates. Did I miss something? Can anyone clarify? I watched the jumbo-tron and I thoought I saw another preacher's excerpts.
I agree with you Anon 10:17 am. Anon 9:23 am was either a victim or very bitter about something in his/her life. You are the only person that feels his sermon on forgiveness was insensitive, the congregation as a whole does not feel that way. If you want to know what he has preached there are 3 sermons you can listen to on Shilohmedia.com.
None of the candidates have come to the pulpit promising Shiloh anything. They have done what they are supposed to do and that is preach the Word of God. When one of them is given the job of pastor, that will be the time to make statements of that nature.
As previously stated, members of Shiloh will be voting Wednesday for our next pastor and very excited about it. I don't get the feeling you are a member, so your opinions won't change that in any way. We are excited about what God is getting ready to do! Be Blessed!
Anon 11:36 - You said, "When one of them is given the job of pastor, that will be the time to make statements of that nature" (i.e., decide what to do at Shiloh as Shiloh's pastor.
If you don't know what a prospective pastor intends to do as Shiloh's senior pastor, then how can you make a sound decision as to which candidate to vote for?
A good preacher doesn't necessarily make a good pastor.
Anon 10:17 - I am so glad to hear you say you have "tremendous compassion for victims of clergy sexual abuse wherever it happens." What have you personally done to help victims of clergy sexual abuse?
That, after all, IS the topic of this blog. This blog was begun by one of DG's victims in order to stop him, and men like him. Tiffany took a stand when many others, in positions of authority over DG, failed to stop him before he hurt many, many women, and now two teens who had the courage and the laws behind them to finally take action.
HB's sermon on forgiveness isn't applicable to Shiloh. There are many of his victims who haven't had enough healing to "forgive" DG, and even if they did, DG would have to be placed in a position under them (cf. Joseph and his brothers from Gen. 50) before they could forgive. Any honest biblical study on forgiveness will tell you that.
There's no bitterness here...just reality and God's word.
Anon 12:34pm, that is not true and I have had personal experience with abuse. My mother, brother and I were abused by my father. My father has yet to repent, that I'm aware of and has yet to apologize to any of us as of this date. I know first hand that the 'same power that raised Jesus from the dead, is the same power available to us'. We refused to allow some man's evil destroy our lives and keep us from victory in our lives. We prayed, studied the Word of God, and relied on our heavenly Father to heal us from what our earthly father did to us. I can truly say we have forgiven him, and he has not been placed under our feet. Your account of forgiveness is incorrect! We are all successful, healthy in body and mind, and most importantly IN CHRIST. Jesus died so that we could have salvation and all the benefits of being adopted into the family of Christ, which includes victory over sin! I am so glad we did not take your position, but relied on what we know is available to us thru Christ! Our lives could have had a very different outcome, but PRAISE GOD!
As for my father, we pray for him daily but realize that he is a truly stubborn man. Only GOD Himself can bring that man to repentance and change his heart. According to your logic, we should still be waiting after 40 years to forgive him and move on! GOD FORBID! That is NOT the GOD I know, love and serve!!
Anon 2:00 - YOU are the one who implied HB's sermon on forgiveness wasn't applicable to the situation at Shiloh, not me. I was just agreeing with you because in reality, it doesn't apply to the victims of DG--at least not until the victims/survivors are ready to forgive. I think the SA already placed DG under everyone's feet by arresting him.
Of course God's word on forgiveness applies to the situation at Shiloh, and applies to victims of clergy sexual abuse. I did not intend to say it didn't; quite the contrary. Reread what I said. I'm sorry if you misunderstood.
I asked what you have personally done to help victims of clergy sexual abuse, and you stated that I need only to your blogs, but you haven't identified yourself. There have been a few people who have commented on this post who have offered real help, understanding and support of victims of clergy sexual abuse. You haven't stated anything other than blogging on this site as your means of helping victims of clergy sexual abuse. How has blogging on this site helped victims of clergy sexual abuse?
I'm sure you are aware, since you are so informed about clergy sexual abuse victims/survivors, of what victims/survivors need to regain wholeness in their lives.
Anon 1:14 - I am truly sorry your father abused your mom, your brother and you. He was not acting like a father should.
Moving on with your life, and not allowing your father's evil to hinder you from growth, is not necessarily forgiving your father. It simply means you have made a decision not to retaliate against him, or allow him to abuse you any further. You have "let it go," something that many today confuse with biblical forgiveness. By the way, I am not against letting it go. Retaliating doesn't make it right, and doesn't help in the healing process, as you know.
Forgiveness, as taught in the Bible, requirees the one who did the offense to confess and repent. If your father hasn't done that, then he does not want to be forgiven for what he did. It's as simple as that. Further, the fact that he is in a position of authority over you, makes it impossible for you to forgive him.
In every instance in the Bible where one person forgives another of an offense, the person who forgave is in a position of greater authority/power than the one who was forgiven.
So, even if your father did want to be forgiven, he would have to confess that he was less than a father to you.
That's exactly what Joseph's brothers did in Gen 50. They confessed their evil against Joseph, repented, and lowered themselves as Joseph's older brothers by proclaiming they were his servants. Only then was Joseph able to forgive them for all they did to him.
It would be great to think that your father would confess and repent, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It's very unlikely unless he gets some serious help. Should we stop praying for your father's repentance? No. But the reality is it's very difficult for a domestic violence abuser to change his ways.
Sorry, Anon8:39 pm. I do not agree with your description of forgiveness and i don't believe it is based on Bible doctrine. There is nothing you can say that can negate my forgiveness of him and my testimony. You may be able to sell that to some other weak minded people, but I'm not believing that.
I will invite you to Shiloh though, when our new pastor is installed. Maybe you can come and get some good Bible expository preaching. I will go to bed this evening praising God that I have forgiven others and for the awesome work He continues to do in my life!
Romans 5:6-8 says, "For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." The notion that forgiveness is contingent on the actions of others is unbiblical. Our example for life starts at the cross of Calvary. While difficult, all of us must forgive people who sometimes are not even seeking forgiveness. Just as Christ died for us before we even displayed any desire for salvation.
In addition, H.B.’s sermon clearly addressed the need to deal with the realities of our hurt and see God in it all. Thus, live godly despite those realities. This is why James tells us to consider it a joy when trails come. The reason is that God is using those things to perfect us. Forgiveness is the result of confidence in God’s goodness. This what the individual is talking about with his or her father. Dealing with those realities and saying God I trust you more than that person’s actions. This empowered them to forgive their dad even though he has showed no sign of wanting to be forgiven.
Furthermore, Joseph’s brothers were not seeking forgiveness, but immunity. They only submitted to him after seeing Joseph’s forgiveness. This is just the opposite of what the critic of the sermon is saying. Also, see the story of Job, who did not receive healing until he forgave his friends for their judgmental ways. Oh the irony!
The person who is bad mouthing that sermon has either not heard it or heard it but has an agenda that is blinding them or just want to distort the people’s perspective of H.B. Then he seasoned his attacks on the sermon with personal attacks of H.B. I think these pseudo attacks confirm H.B.’s viability as an outstanding pastor. What age is acceptable to you? Age does not mean a person is wise and vice the versa. Education? You can listen to ten minutes of him preaching and note that he is a learned man. Plus, his pastoral experience is more proof that this man is intelligent. On top of this, he has contributed to two books that were edited by men from The Master’s Seminary and Princeton Seminary. These learned men felt H.B. was qualified to talk about preaching and moral purity.
This is also ironic because these are the two qualities that the scripture demand for the office of a pastor. I Timothy 3 and Titus 2 speak of morally purity plus the commitment and ability to preach and teach sound doctrine. Shiloh must be praying that God’s will be done, not Sylvia Watts, Kay, Pastor Rod or even mine. God will be glorified when His people pray, vote then support whoever God places as their spiritual leader.
This blog may be therapeutic to some, but only devotion to God will give spiritual illumination concerning theses issues. The sister, as a former victim, started it to ensure civil justice is served, which is great. But God and only God will execute spiritual justice. I agree that members that have a problem or concern about the process should take that up with their leaders, not a blog. This just turns your concerns, which may be legitimate, into idle chatter.
Plus, getting involved in unfounded and/or uninformed personal insults on any of these great men of God is wrong. Both of these men have displayed nothing but spiritual maturity. They both are sacrificing greatly to follow God leading to pursuit this position as pastor. Let us pray for them, not talk trash about them. God is the ultimately pastor of the church. He, the man God selects and Shiloh elects, will just be the undershepherd. God will take care of His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. This I know! I am praying for you Shiloh!
To the anonymous person who made the last post that really made any sense...Thnak you so much for allowing the spirit use you to turn this blog around...idle gossip is running amuck on this blog and throughout the church community...God bless you for being lead by the spirit and not being apart of the corrupt communication.
To anon July 29 10:17 & 11:36am, I also feel that a sermon at this time on forgiveness is inappropriate and insensitive. The person that you are responding to in no way stands alone. I assure you.
Also instead of telling that individual in essence to butt out and mind their own business, you might try being open-minded and listening. Please! be slow to speak. Meditate.
I'm sorry but your scope IS narrow. And I hope this HB is not the same way. No one here on this blog needs you to beckon or send them away from Shiloh.
Well, I can obviously see some one is bent onmaking this blog about the Shiloh church and Pastor HB. The truth of the matter is that a message of forgiveness is alway inorder and always appropriate. is that not what Christ did for us, while we we yet in our trespasses and sin...may I suggest to each of you who call yourself bloggers and such, which is just a modern day word for gossipers...Leave God's church alone, and leave pastor HB and any other minister alone...This blog site as I recall and have re-read in the initial commenst posted by Ms Croft was designed to focus on CSA and trying to stop such behavior coming out of God's churches...maybe the site should re-titled with "Let's stop the Corrupt Commication Together"...Christian folk...please stop and repent, and re-direct the focus of which this site was created...What is wron with you people?
A message on forgiveness shouldn't be preached??? What??? It's insensitive and inappropriate??? What??? Lord, what is wrong with you man...or woman, since you are making your comments anonymously...If one does not forgive, spirtual healing cannot take place...Punishment for wrong doing is inevitable for any criminal, but the Christain...Real Christian!!...We are commissioned to fogive ,a Thank God for ministers who will stand up, flat foted and preach it like it should be preached!!!...
What if God chose not to forgive you? What if he decided that you asking Him for forgiveness was inappropriate and insensitive...after you had wallowed in sin and degradation???
You people need to stop acting like lost folk......that is if you are truly saved.
God instructs us to forgive...no negotiation!!!
And don't even respond because I don't read anything you have to say....silly self!!!
Right on my sister/brother...You must be an evangelist, because you really put some word out there to the anonymous one who thinks that a message on forgiveness is inappropriate and insensitive...If you gonna make it in, you betta try to forgive somebody...Maybe you should start with yourself, for makinig such an idiotic commeent...Glory to the Lamb for his forgiveness of sin.
So what was/is the results? By the way, here is an interesting thing that Shiloh might not know about HB, assuming he's the going to be the new pastor.
While he didn't do it for you guys when he preached at Shiloh, but HB is a strong "Whooper!" If your church is not use to that style, and I know Darrell was not a whooper, you guys better get ready for "traditional" whooping at the close of the sermon.
As I listened to HB on the media site, I could tell he was holding back and didn't want to go into his whooping. If you don't believe me, go on youtube right now and you will hear him doing some major whooping!
Therefore, Shiloh had better get ready for a major change in preaching style and I must say I think that's funny. HB is something else! I love him though. :-)
So what if he knows how to "whoop"? Why should you care? You aren't a Shilite. If you were you wouldn't be asking about the election results. Find sometime besides what's happening at Shiloh to occupy your time.
To the last post by Anonymous, for the record, this blog isn't about Shiloh either! Why are you on here discussing Shiloh's issues?
You and a few others opened the door. The point is, HB will take Shiloh in a direction of preaching style that she isn't prepared for, but he didn't want you guys to know it while he was candidating.
Shiloh will probably turn into Bethel and the Mckissics! Rudy jr. is a whooper too! When HB preached and at the end of his sermon he said, "Hey, hey", that was a sign that he was testing you guys to see if you would get with him.....should he decide to whoop it out!
Therefore, if HB comes to Shiloh, she must be prepared for "Sunday at Shiloh will be whooping time!"
I don't care who your new pastor is or what you all are doing at Shiloh just as long as it doesn't entail kids being molested or women being abused by CSA. May I remind you how Shiloh's name got in everybody's mouth! Keep your housekeeping about Shiloh to yourself, on this blog we are trying to keep the fight alive about stopping a particular pastor Darrell Gilyard from victimizing any boy, girl, or woman ever again! This is my fervent prayer and also the POINT of this blog!!!!!!!!!!! Geez!!!!!!!!!! Keep your housekeeping at home. This site IS NOT about Shiloh.
Forgivness is two-fold.First let's look at it from God's point of veiw as our guide.There is the offender(sinners)and the Offended(God).In order for the two-fold process of forgiveness to be completed,there has to the confession of the offender(sinner) ion and forgiveness from the offended(God).Now let's imagine that the offender(sinner)does not asked to be forgiven,then God will not forgive him.At the same time God still loves the offender(sinner)and demonstrates this fact by His kindness,patience,endurance and gentleness toward him not wanting him not to perish.The forgiveness therefore is not complete and resotration of the relationship remains un-restored.For example;Jesus cried out to His Father "forgive them; For they know not what they do"(Lk.23:34) Were they forgiven? Yet Peter in Acts 2:23 accused them;"Ye have taken,and by wicked hands have crucified and slain"(The Christ).In verse 36 Peter stated "That God hath made that same Jesus WHOM YE HAVE CRUCIFIED,both Lord and Christ".Then Peter offers them the opportunity to be forgiven of this horrible act in verse 38 by repenting for the forgiveness of there sin(offense toward God).Now let's look at it from the Christian's point of view.We are commanded to first to love God and secondly to love one another.Jesus was so bold as to further command that we love our enemies.Then we are commanded by Paul "Be Ye therefore followers(imitators)of God,as dear children"[Eph.5:1].In a nut-shell our desire to forgive should imitate that of God(Christ),and though the offending party may not have asked forgiveness,we should endeavor to hold no malice toward the offender and be willing to complete the forgiveness process if the oppotunity presents itself.Remember this.If someone sins against us;the greater sins in against God,and Paul wrote that "Vengeance is Mine;I will repay,saith the Lord[Rom.12:19B].Much more I could blog on this subject;But I'm stretched for time.
Re Pastor Rod 080108@ 6:19 am: It is interesting that Jesus himself was the one praying to the Father that the Father would forgive. Could it be that the pain of the cross was so debilitating that Jesus as flesh and in the moment could not handle forgiving those who were lynching Him?
Jesus did not say "Father, I forgive them." He said "Father, (you) forgive them. God indeed has forgiven us all, including DG and HB.
Anon 9:53 - There are several theologians who believe Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who had crucified Him because Jesus had depleted Himself of all authority when He came to earth. He came as a servant. And certainly on the cross, He was a sacrificial lamb. As such, He could not forgive them. Therefore, He asked His Father--who did have the authority--to forgive them.
Pastor Rod - AMEN to your comments on forgiveness.
If I might be so bold as to add that in the Old Testament--from which we get our model for forgiveness based on sacrifice--there were two kinds of offenses (sins). The first were offenses against God, like for instance, taking the name of the Lord in vain. The second were offenses against one another, like if someone steals from his neighbor. Both kinds of offenses offend God (because they violate God's laws, i.e., the 10 commandments). Both had a little different approach for the offender if the offender desired to be forgiven. But whether the offense was against God or against another human being, it is always the responsibility of the offender to seek to be forgiven. And the offended is always to forgive without malice if the offended person seeks forgiveness. Pastor Rod said, "...if the opportunity presents itself."
As part of "seeking forgiveness," the Old Testament model requires some conditions.
The first condition is that the offender agrees with the offended person as to the offense. We call this confession. The offender must confess to the sin.
The second condition is something those in the Jewish faith today call "teshuvah." That involves repentance (turning away from the sin, deciding never to do the sin again), as well as making restitution to the offended person before forgiveness can be granted. That doesn't just mean saying your sorry or giving back what was stolen; the offender is to give back more than what was stolen with a contrite heart. This concept is why our courts today grant "punitive damages."
Further, in every instance where forgiveness was granted in the Old Testament (and also in the New Testament), the one who forgave was in a position of power/authority over the offender.
The Old Testament model of forgiveness is important to Christians today because it is the same model Jesus taught. Jesus (and the apostle Paul) did not have to expound on the teaching of forgiveness because people understood what forgiveness meant. Even the pagans of that day had the idea of forgiveness meaning to right the wrongs of offenses committed so that the relationship could be restored.
And, indeed, the Greek word "to forgive," ephiemi, carries the same meaning as the Hebrew word "to forgive" used in the Old Testament. The word ephiemi is used at least 40 times in the New Testament.
So, where does the idea of unconditional forgiveness come from? And how did that get to be applied to Christians having to forgive evildoers who cause great harm to the offended--harm for which restitution is impossible, as in cases of rape, incest, sexual abuse?
In trying to give some guidelines to churches, specifically the churches at Colossae and Ephesus, Paul introduces a new concept of "unconditional forgiveness." This is the English translation of the Greek word charizomai from which we get our word charisma. It is used only 10 times in the New Testament.
In instructing believers on how to live in unity in the church, Paul commands Christians to unconditionally forgive one another. The basis for this forgiveness is NOT the redemptive work of Jesus on the cross as much as it is a sense of not allowing little annoyances to tear apart the unity of believers in the church. For example, Paul told the belivers not to take one another to court over little issues, but rather to simply let it go.
An example of "letting it go" might be if your neighbor's leaves fall into your swimming pool. Rather than take your neighbor to court over the leaves, simply clean up the leaves and "let it go." It's not a big deal. Keep the peace with your neighbor.
So much more could be said.
Someone above mentioned Rom 5:6-8 as the reason why victims should unconditionally forgive the perpetrator. In all of my 38 years of being a Christian, I have never heard that passage used to explain forgiveness!
Rom 5:6-8 explains why God is justified in crediting righteousness to us (Rom 4) based on the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross. This justification, and the redemptive work of Jesus, merely OPENS THE WAY for forgiveness. In other words, it makes forgiveness possible so that we don't have to go to the Temple to offer sacrifices for our sin. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.
But an offender (sinner) still needs to seek to be forgiven. Forgiveness does not automatically come to every sinner. It is only those who confess and repent who are forgiven.
Continuing on in Rom 6:1,2 Paul asks the rhetorical question, "What should we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? CERTAINLY NOT!" Grace does not mean we have a license to sin.
Thank you for your comments on forgiveness. As a survivor of clergy sexual abuse, I can understand how important this issue is. I've had many very well-meaning Christians command, even demand, that I forgive the pastor perpetrator who hurt me. I have never felt good about doing so. Something just wasn't right.
And I've received testimony from too many victim/survivors of clergy sexual abuse who were brought before their congregations, and commanded by the church leadership to forgive the pastor perpetrator (without the pastor perpetrator being held accountable in any real way; without contrition for his deeds). Usually, the perpetrating pastor is either restored to the pulpit, or allowed to resign--many times with a hefty stipend to send him on his way. No real help for the victim, and no real help for the pastor perpetrator is given.
Many incest survivors who have "forgiven" their perpetrators out of a desire to move on with their lives--something which I can certainly understand--tell me I should do the same. The reason is not to restore any relationship or even right any wrongs, but so I can get "healing." But real healing doesn't come from a "fantasy" forgiveness (cf. this term in the book Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman, M.D.).
It would be nice, but there is no magic wand of forgiveness to expel the painful wounds of clergy sexual abuse. It ultimately takes facing what happened and mourning the losses to gain recovery and wholeness. That takes a lot of courage and support from those who love the victim/survivor.
For those victims/survivors who have forgiven their perpetrators, that is fine if you were led by the Lord to do so. I'm not saying you did anything wrong in the least. Doing so does help elevate your mood, and helps you cope with life again. I'm just saying it is not the way for everyone to get healing for what happened.
And for errant pastors who do atrocious acts against members of their congregations, listen up. Yes, forgiveness is available for your sins. God loves you. He understands your deepest pains, and why you do what you do. God doesn't condone what you are doing. He is angered by it. But he also wants you to come clean, so you, too, can understand what real forgiveness is about. But forgiveness has conditions.
In order for a pastor who behaves like a sex offender to be forgiven, the pastor/sex offender must first tell the truth about what he (or she) has done. Then those who are in authority (whether it be church leaders or law officials) need to step in, remove the pastor perpetrator from his position of leadership, and hold him accountable for his actions.
Then the pastor perpetrator might (and I say might depending on the severity of his psychological disorder) understand that he did something wrong which requires forgiveness in order to be right with God and his community. And if he seeks forgiveness with a contrite heart, there is hope for him.
But, unfortunately and sadly, I haven't heard of very many pastor perpetrators who've sought to be forgiven for what they did; at least not seriously.
Again, thank you for your comments and clarification. Forgiveness is good news to any repentant heart. It should never be used as a weapon to further harm a victim of clergy sexual abuse.
Forgiveness is very important! however, I agree with many of you who have said that there must be ownership of one's sins before forgiveness can be extended.
The Bible says "if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Has DG truly repented and "confessed" his sins? To confess means to agree with God about your sin. If he has pleaded not guilty, then that is a clear sign that he hasn't owned up to his sins as it relates to these young girls and the countless other women with whom he has sinned.
Thank you for your comments! As always, I enjoy reading the words of wisdom you share with us. You have brought SO MUCH to this blog, and I thank God for you.
Anon, Aug 1,2008 12:49 pm
Thank you for your wonderful insights on forgiveness!
You still have not repented in the wake of all that they have on you. Rumors have been planted that the charges are dropped or will be, you've been promised nothing will happen and that is simply NOT true.
I know you pray to God to get another chance and you will not do it anymore , however you have had too many chances to stop this sickness that you have. God knows and you know what you've done. I pray for you often that the Holy Spirit speak to you, but I guess if you're not in His will how can you hear???
I hurt for your wife as she endures this madness. God be with you as He is the only one that can truly punish you.
The law of the land will prevail as well. Get your suit ready!
Ms. J - Thank you for your kind words, but let's keep the praise where it belongs: Praise to God and His word. He has been leading and directing on this blog site.
God hears the cries of every victim of clergy sexual abuse; He feels the pain; He sees the tears falling and collects them as a witness; He comforts those who mourn. He puts the broken pieces back together. His Word speaks the truth against sexual immorality. To God be the glory.
Anon 8-1-08 12:49 You are absolutely correct all honor and praise belongs to our God.I also ditto Ms J.'s comments and thank you for your humilty and Biblical insight.May the Lord continue to bless you with His wisdom.
I pray that God knock him to his knees. He should be taking this time to get alone with God vs. telling people he's going to get off and saying its no big deal.
It appears that Hank Cox mostly defends those who are guilty, that could just be perception.
Hank is expensive and DG's money has got to be running out. No that's right, First Timothy is taking up collections for him.
Wonder if he will barter for Hank's representation.
Well, I have not commented in a while because much of what is said here right now is about Shiloh and I do not get involved with that because it is not my church.
I created this blog for awareness of what DG has gotten away with for so many years, and hopefully to encourage the victims to come forward. The case is more behind the scenes at this time and there is no "News" to report and the blog has taken the direction of people having a place to be heard.
At this time I have to step in to speak out for my friend Pastor Rod. James Junior, you have Pastor Rod pegged all wrong, he has been a very strong voice and prayer warrior. He and his dear wife have lent great support and stuck their necks way out for the right reasons. Notice that he has not defended himself against your latest comments, much of the time that is a sign of innocence and no need for justification by him. He actually is also a friend of my Father and family, he was beside me in court when my husband could not be there and he and his wife have helped in countless ways with the investigation and this blog. He is a man of charachter and a man of God. I wanted to clarify that for all readers (though many of you already know) he is not the enemy here and should be commended for his charachter. I fully agree that it was not his place or his calling to picket the church. But rest assured that he is praying for God's direction and will act accordingly.
Also, to the Deacon who apologized here - WOW! Thank you for your honesty and for breaking the silence. I hope others will follow your lead!
One other comment - I am thankful that so many of you continue to come to this blog, many faithful readers. When I made the comment above about it taking a different direction, I need to clarify that I am glad it is a place where you all can comment and air your frustrations and opinions and questions.
I want to congratulate the Shiolh Baptist Church on their election of Rev. H.B. Charles, Jr. to become the next pastor! He is, without question, a great young preacher!
I sincerely hope that this "marriage" between pastor and people turns out for the glory of Almighty God! Be patient with him and don't expect a 35 year old to be a 50 year old.
One of the best things I believe should happen on this blog is for folk to leave other ministers names off of here...It's about time Ms Croft made comment as to why this blog was created, and I do thank her for FINALLY doing so... The disheartening part of what she finally commented on is the encouragement of "IDLE GOSSIP"...She masked that comment by saying that this is a place to, air frustration, voice opinions and ask questions.If one has an alt with his, or her brother, then the appropriate place to take that question, concern, or release of frustration is to that person. Futhermore the best place to ask questions and have them answered is in the Bible...Not to a public blog, where many folk are called out and demeaned so-to-speak...For the folk Mrs. Croft referred to as faithful readers, the correct term to use would be more like "Corrupt Communicators", or more appropriate, "Mud Mashers"...For those of you who have tried to lead readers into the light, I applaud your efforts...Many of you are able to read and decipher through the mess that has been created here, and have tried to use the word of God to enlighten and strengthen...One of the things we as Christians should be trying to do is spread "The Word"...not gossip...We should be trying to make the grape vine a vine that only carries the the word, ultimately to bear and grow sweet, ripened grapes...This should never have been a place to blast other miniters for their preaching styles, or for the way they spread the word in the way it's given to them......To the blogger who commented on another's preacher's style of word delivery, I say to you that very often when I get into my word and study, I have atendency to WHOOP myself... If one can whoop and hollar at a football game over a piece of pig skin moving down the field, then what is wrong with a whole lot of WHOOPING and HOLLering for a God who has provided us with a Savior like Jesus who died for the remition of our sin...For that purpose alone , I could Whoop myself right into a frenzy. If a preacher whoops after teaching the word, then there is nothing wrong with that... After reading some of the foolishness publiched here, I think it may be time that more read, study, digest, internalize, live, and spread "The Word. I assure you that if this is done, more so called beleivers and followers of Christ would WHOOP too. In fact if there was a way to whoop on this key board I'd be whooping right now...Whoop, Whoop, Whoop...Finally Ladies and Gentlemen, and I am using that term very loosely...Please recognize when you are being used for corruption comunication and breaking down,versus erecting and KINGDOM BUILDING..."If I be lifted up from the earth, I'll draw all men unto me"...Can someone help me lift Jesus?...It grieves my spirit, and I'm sure God's to see how many of you have just run amuck and have been so negatively influenced by the many tactics satan uses to tear down the kingdom...Be careful for nothing but by everything with prayer and supplication...Folk pleas, before you decide to post to this blog site, please STOP...THINK...and ASK yourself if it will be edyfing, which means to build up or if your comment is eterllectually or spiritually informing...As a part of my endeavors to spread "The Word", I am making a call out to those who are versed in "The word" to post and blog only scriptures of truth, word's of wisdom, and postive praises to "God Almighty"...Here's the official title Christian Folk..."LETS STOP CORRUPT COMMUNICATION TOGETHER"...NOW POST!
To the very last commenter with the long nonsensical statments:
First, I think you need to go to school for the purpose of learning how to spell and to exercise proper grammar, etc.
In my lifestime, most preachers who whoop are people who, have nothing very much to say! With your spelling and grammar being atrocious, perhaps that's why you feel the need to whoop!
Let's talk about something else. What and the alarming rise in crime in the city of Jacksonville? Let's discuss things we can do to keep the criminals from kicking down our front doors and taking over our city. That is certainly more important than the preaching style of the next pastor of Shiloh.....I would hope. If not, then we have a serious problem.
Wow. I agree with a lot of what the blogger stated against me on the August 5, 2008 9:31 AM comment. It has become a bashing place and a lot of deragatory comments geared toward innocent people - which was not the intent of this blog. I have tried to monitor truly deragatory comments towards others, but I cannot monitor every comment and discussion. Perhaps this is why so many people are against blogs in general.
Can we please try and turn this boat around "so to speak" and keep on task. It is not a blog about other ministers or churches.Though I know the people of Shiloh are very directly involved here and I welcome you. I do feel your heart ache and concern, I pray for a healthy church environment for you - I really do care about you as a people and as my brothers and sisters in Christ.
Let's try to keep on task. For myself, it has become difficult to keep up with all that is going on here on the blog (with a new baby and the rest of my family) because so much needing to be read is not applicable to my reason for the blog, so I have tended to skim through it. I apologize for comments I have missed or not communicated in a timely manner.
There really is a goal here, thank you for catching the vision and for staying tuned. When the trial begins we will have much more to discuss. Do not believe the rumors of the charges being dropped - completely false!
Mrs. Croft...I fully appreciate your comments concerning the post that have been written on this blog site, and I pray you recieve this comment in the spirit of which it's given...Love...I do think that it is your COMPLETE responsibility to ensure the comments on here stay on task, new baby or not...CSA is an aweful, dispicable thing, and men or women who commit such crimes should be exposed and brought to justice. I am so fed up with so called Christian folk doing things and hiding behind the cross to commit such terrible offenses
With the comments that have been made and continue to be on here toward other ministers and other bloggers is just as wrong as those who commit other offenses...it's called "Corrupt Communication".
I appreciate your efforts in exposing DG and other clergymen or women who have committed such offenses...I am asking that you get a sitter, a nanny, your husband, a friend, or whomever and do what ever it takes to assist you with your family responsibilites in order to better maintain your site.
As christians, we not only have a responsibility to expose sex crimes, but we also have a responsibity to dispose of currupt communication or vial comments toward others especially to the body of Christ.
There should be no comments on here concerning Pastor HB or Pastor Evans or any other astor for that matter unless it is to support the intended purpose of which you described in the initial comments. Just as you created your children and they are your responsiblity, you also created this site and it too is your responsibility. New baby, 5 children or not...you have a responsiblity, if that responsibilty cannot be fulfilled, then perhaps this entire blog site should be desolved.
I do believe it serves a valiant purpose. I am just so disheartened by the attack on the Kingdom, and yes corruspt communication is an attack on "Kingdom Building". Please don't let the ignornace of many folk and idle gossip(mess) be the reason why bloggers come to this site. Honor your responsibilty without excuse and don't let satan infect the intended purpose of this site. "Let's STOP Corruupt Communication Together"...It too is a nasty sin... Bless you and yours! Michael K
You know, I was thinking the other day: if the Deacon who, came on this blog and confessed that he and other Deacons knew what DG was up to, would this admission leave Shiloh Vulnerable to possible future Lawsuits? What do you guys think?
Michael K - From my own experience with church leaders who try to cover up what happened (and from other victims of clergy sexual abuse that I've spoken with), the people who try to get everyone to stop talking about what happened are either:
(1) corrupt church leaders who are trying to continue to cover up the clergy sexual abuse in their church; or
(2) other believers who are frustrated because there seems to be nothing anyone can do to prevent it.
Either way, the ones who are trying to stop the talking--what you are calling "corrupt communcation"-- are enabling the problem.
This is not a blog site about stopping "corrupt communication." There has been no corrupt communication on this site other than errant church leaders trying to defend a terrible beast, and perhaps their own negligence.
One more word that I hope you take in a spirit of love: clergy sexual abuse is not a "nasty sin." It is evil.
Tiffany, this is a wonderful place to air greivances of all kinds and preachers are not off limits contrary to what Micheal K. may think. What has been said here is therapy and I will not let him stifle others or myself. This site has helped me get over my pain. My hurt has receded and is nearly all gone. Thank you Tiffany!! Do not underestimate what you have done here. Venting here has been necessary for hurt members of Shiloh, victims, and mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, and other family members and friends of victims. No, I will not shut up and what you are attempting to do is why so many people suffer in silence and refuse to speak of their pain, their grievance, anger and shame. Do you think the Lord Jesus is afraid to hear about Newbill and deacons in Shiloh? Do you think people should not be able to say if they like a preacher or not? ... For what reason?? People can't have an opinion now? I think the church and overseers should be discussed and scrutinized often. Maybe there would be less opportunity for wrongdoing. I will not get back into the box I was in before. That's over.
Furthermore, the idiotic comment this person made about, So what you have a baby! get on here and monitor this thing.(paraphrase)
Frankly, I have been amazed that you have been able to get on as much as you have been. You are doing a phenomenal job Tiffany. He had no need to leave his name, I would have already known it had to be a male with that kind of comment. You have a 4-month old baby! I don't have to say anything else to any woman out there. I am a woman with children myself. You had a family and were in the middle of a pregnancy, you are to be applauded. If you have a wife Michael I am so very sorry for her.
This morning I made a list of the things I'm thankful for. On the list was thanking God for Tiffany, and her courage to speak up, to help the two teens, and also for this blog which has been a wonderful tool to help the victims, and others, understand and sort through the clergy sexual abuse that happened at Shiloh.
And then I read Kay's comment! And had to add to my list:
I'm grateful for the deacon who confessed and repented. He lent valuable information in his confession as to how DG could "get away" with what he was doing, and why the deacons wouldn't do anything about it. It vindicated not just the victims at Shiloh, but victims of clergy sexual abuse everywhere.
I'm grateful for all who have stood with victims of clergy sexual abuse despite heavy criticism (even ostracizing) from church leaders. I speak of Pastor Rod, and of two missionary families from my own church who were stripped of their support after they supported me, and others like them who were bad-mouthed because they believed the unbelievable and stood with the victims.
And I'm thankful for victims who have had the courage to speak up. Clergy sexual abuse is a terrible thing in our churches. Victims and others need to speak up.
Kay, you're right. This blog is good therapy. I have appreciated your comments that reflect your sincererity of heart. I hope we never shut up about what happened.
May the Lord continue to oversee this blog, and bless Tiffany and her family.
A very interesting thing is brewing in Los Angeles where Rev. H.B. charles, Jr. still resides. His church is really ticked off with him
Why? They feel betrayed that he is leaving. He talked them into buying some new property for their new church site valued over a couple of million dollars, and now he is leaving!
Pray for Rev. charles as he is going to need it coming to Shiloh. He is going to face the wrath of all the DG die hearts who feel that he "took their man's place!"
Sharon Rose, Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate the work you are doing. I have been to your website and learned much. May God bless you and your family. Your words on this site are balm to the soul.
Wow! I've just heard that Shiloh has offered Rev. H.B. Charles a total package of $ 450,000 in salary and compensation. That is great, and not bad for a young man who has only a High School Diploma! Wow!
It seems that God's favor is on Pastor Charles' life. He is definitely a testament of what God can do!! With God on your side those things that seem impossible (like a six figure salary and no diploma)become possible.
That would be a GREAT figure if it were true, but it isn't. It may be possible at some point in the future. HB will have to prove himself to make that kind of money; he is not starting out with such a big package.
Why would that figure be hard to believe? After all, if the Trustees were willing to pay a family nearly $ 300,000 to keep quiet about their daughter's pregnancy, then anything is possible! DG was making well over $ 350,000!
Again, I say if the church has it to give it, then HB should get all he can! :-)
Have you guys heard about Dr. Joseph Evans? He has just got called to a church of 8,000 members in Houston, Texas. Go ahead Evans!
Apparently, he was candidating with two churches at the same time. Very classy man, so I am not surprised.
You have to remember, DG was making that kind of money AFTER being pastor for 15 years, he did not start out with that and neither will HB. The potential is there though.
That is wonderful news about pastor Evans; most pastors court or are courted by several churches at the same time, nothing unusual about that. He wasn't what we were looking for at Shiloh but I'm sure he will do a great job!
I'm glad that you guys got HB as your pastor! I think he has more character than DG, though he certainly is not perfect either.
By the way, let me make a confession: I never liked the "Sound" of DG's voice. It was whiney to me. I realize he is a small man, but his voice was a complete turn-off!
299 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 299 of 299Anon 5:20 PM What do you care about how quickly Shiloh calls a pastor? Are you a member? Who appointed you and Sylvia Watts as overseers of this church's affairs? What Shiloh does or doesn't do is Shiloh's business. Maybe you both should limit your concerns to your own churches.
Dear James the media was notified,but obviously didn't think it was news worthy because it invovled grown women.As a matter of fact one of the news media's own was improperly harassed by Mr.Gilyard yet no coverage.The only reason the media decided to cover Darrell this time was due to children being invovled and after his arrest.The name of my ministry is Word of Life Community Church at 2424 Orchard St.Jacksonville,fl.on the West side.You are welcomed anytime.
Oh by the way James when Darrell had his first court date after his initial arrest,I was with Tiffany in the court room.If you check channel 12's news archives you may see me sitting next to her and escorting her thru the courthouse hall ways.The news media chose not to interveiw me,but the Florida Times Union did ask and record my name.
Kay thanks for the encouragement but I've got thick skin.In my short time as a Pastor I have learn to deal with people like James.I don't think he's a bad guy just expressing his point of veiw.Thank God for the freedom that we have in America to speak our mind.One other thing Mr.James Iam many things,but one thing Iam not....And thats a coward!!!!
Pastor Rod, yes sir, that what I'm talking about. It's obvious you can handle yours. I will certainly welcome the opportunity to come support your ministry.
James Junior
To Anonymous:
You are right, this is not a cat fight! I simply gave my view/opinion of the situation. Yes, we know HB really well, and have the upmost respect for him even as we had for his late Father.
I wonder why you might be argumentative when there is no need. I simply believe that based on the sermons I heard on your website that, Dr. Evans brings more experience, maturity, knowledge of the Word of God, and the academic background that I believe a church like Shiloh would want.
Don't be immature by thinking that I am posing as Mr. Cooper. I hope that the majority of Shiloh's membership isn't silly like this. Mr. Cooper is man enough to speak for himself. If you like, I can give you his e-mail and you can write him for yourself. The bottom line is you are a liar! No one contacted that pastor as he is a man of integrity and very clearly stated so.
We love HB, and if he is God's choice for Shiloh, then praise God! I only hope that the people treat him well even when the novelty and the honeymoon phase wear off.
Lastly, it is a darn shame that the Deacons would knowingly allow Pastor Gilyard to sleep with some of their wives and the wives of other men in the church and remain silent. What a pity! And, how evil can one get?
I really do wish Shiloh well in your pursuit (maybe I should have said God's pursuit) of a new pastor.
Very Sincerely Yours,
Mrs. Sylvia Watts
(see, I signed my name, what's yours?)
Ms. watts why do you care? i think that Anon. did come of a little hard , but still if you know him so well , why are you on here saying the things that you are, why not speak with HB about your feelings or just start praying for us. I'm sorry but you do come off a little as not liking HB, so it is hard to take your words.
Kim.
Anon 8:44 - LARGE does not necessarily mean BEST. DG built Shiloh up while doing terrible, unthinkable, evil acts toward women (and at least two teens).
As far as HB - there is no question that he is called of God to preach, and, as has been stated by those who know him, is a gifted preacher. But does he have the wisdom and experience to know how to handle the situation regarding DG at Shiloh?
Some may think this is a "non-issue," expecially those want to "just get on with things." But for the victims of DG--those who have come forward and those who have not--there will naturally arise concerns and questions of faith that could shake marriages--even destroy marriages. And beyond the marriages that will be destroyed, what about people's faith? There will be some who may not want to ever attend church again because of what DG did. This kind of thing (evil) messes with people.
How will HB handle that? How will the next leader of Shiloh (whoever it is) handle that? That should be a concern to Shiloh's leaders--if they are true shepherds of God's sheep.
A congegation that goes through what Shiloh has needs special care to get back on track in living the Christian life.
It's not about the size of the attendance or the amount of money. It's about whether the people of God are worshipping and doing the work of God. How will Shiloh get to a healthy state of spirituality as a church? In doing that, you must consider those members, the victims, who were hurt. They need to be restored before you can simply "move on." Need a Bible reference for doing that? Read I Corinthians 5; then go to Ephesians 4 and 5, among a host of other scripture references.
Mrs. Watts - Thank you for your input! It IS valued by many, both on this blog and at Shiloh.
James Junior - much of the problem in dealing with adult women who are vicitmized by a pastor is that the laws in most states do not prohibit such crimes. That's because of the larger law of "separation of church and state."
It is very difficult for an adult victim to take a pastor to court because the court doesn't normally have jurisdiction in such cases. Attorneys, however, are finding ways to get around the lack of laws, and are being successful in winning compensation to victims. And most insurance companies no longer insure against clergy sexual abuse cases. So, today, if a victim wins, the church has to pay without compensation from its insurance company.
Most states today have laws regarding child sexual abuse, regardless of who the perpetrator is, which is why the SA was able to arrest DG based on the evidence provided.
What we need, as a country, are for the laws regarding sexual abuse in the workplace to expand to include the clergy profession.
It's not that church leaders don't necessarily want to hold these pastor perpetrators accountable, many times their hands are tied, as was Pastor Rod's experience, and the deacon who anonymously confessed knowing of DG's doings regarding adult women on this blog.
However, today there are resources for churches where clergy sexual abuse happens. By law, churches are responsible for holding pastor perpetrators accountable, and should have a plan at the ready if this should ever happen. The Presbyterian Church has a great plan for holding its pastors accountable, and serves as a model to other churches. It would behoove any independent church, and especially any Southern Baptist Church, to look at the Presbyterian model. It's a good one.
(And please don't think I'm saying Shiloh is a SBC church--I know it's not.)
I am continuing to pray for all of the victims in this case, as well as the congregation of Shiloh, (and the congregants of First Timothy who are at risk), and especially Shiloh's deacons as you make extraordinary decisions in the weeks and months ahead.
Sharon Rose
Whoa! I think that is a great responsibilty to put on one person! Should the next pastor be responsible for everyone's marriage, everyone's healing etc. Not in my opinion. I don't know of many pastors who are prepared for such challenges esp. if you have not been directly involved in any such situations. I do think the pastor has responsibilty, but I don't know if I would say, my marriage broke up over this, so you fix it! Of course there will be a need for counseling for those who need it but many may need outside professional counseling. I believe the teens are already getting that.
As far as our spirituality as a church, I believe that although we know we had some serious problems to come to light and deal with, the fact that God is still on the throne, we have survived as a church, we may have lost some members but on the whole the faithful have remained. That is because our eyes were not on the man but on God himself! When you are focused on Him and know that in every area of life man will always disappoint and fail you, you don't have to curl up and die because of the evil that is in this world and the Bible tells us that we have yet to see what is to come.
I guess, for me, I am coming from this perspective, IS JESUS DEAD! We have available to us at all times, THE HEALER, THE COMFORTER, EVERLASTINg FATHER, THE GREAT I AM, the accolades go on and on! I truly hope that no one has been waiting on the next pastor to be installed before they can start healing and pressing forward. What an insult to God; 'Cast ALL your cares upon me'. That is what we are to do, so for the last 8 months that we have been without a pastor I hope and pray that everyone has been tapping into the power that is available to those who know and love the Lord!
To ALL SHILITES!! We only have a few more days until voting. Please pray for Gods' spiritual guidance and wisdom for the next pastor to lead our church. I believe that God is and will answer our sincere prayers!
How in the world did you guys go from supposedly talking about DG and the issues around him to talking about who is going to be the next pastor?
I know Reverend H. B. chrles, Jr. too! He is without question a tremendous preacher, and he is a very nice person as well. He is not perfect as none of us are.
I also know Dr. Evans from my days at Howard University. He is also a great preacher and even more of a great man! You couldn't go wrong from choosing either man in my opinion. That's all I have to say.
Howard
Anon 7/25 3:03pm you said, "...in every area of life man will always disappoint and fail you, you don't have to curl up and die because of the evil that is in this world ..."
No, you don't curl up and die but you don't have to stay there and look evil in the face either.
To Kay 2:07pm:
The evil leader that was there no longer is. As stated before, the leadership that brought DG to Shiloh 15 years ago, most of thsoe people are no longer there, deceased and/or no longer hold chairman positions. There have also been several new people placed in inkey positions that were not involved in any way with the DG regime. I believe this puts us in a good position to move forward. Also, we don't know what changes the new pastor may make when he gets here or who he may bring and/or hire as staff.
I agree with you anon,(post 7-23 5:20 pm), that what would it hurt if we wait for a few more weeks before we call a new pastor. But clearly the answer is that the church leaders already have THEIR man; a younger, not-well educated man, who has 17 years of experience. I know he has plans to further his education...but on the same note as anon (July 18th 1140am), "...if the pastor is not degreed, he should not expect to make a six figure salary...". We Shilites shall see...
Anon 1:45 pm:
What do you think we have to gain by waiting a few more weeks?
HB may not have completed formal seminary training(neither did DG) but I still feel that out of all the candidates we have seen, none of them did a better job preaching with all their training, than HB did. I would rather listen to him than most "educated" pastors I know. Education does not necessarily confer anointing. If GOD be for you, who can be against you!
You do know that you will have 3 choices: HB, Evans and neither. So you don't have to vote for either if you aren't happy with the choices.
Also, I don't necessarily agree that because you don't have a degree it means you can't ask for and get a 6-figure salary. I know people that do it in every walk of life; e.g. my mother works for a Fortune 500 company, never completed her degree but has a top position and salary that rivals many of the 30 yo college grads. She gets it because she is doggone good at what she does. GOD is GOOD!
anon 4:11pm
May God continue to Bless you and your mother.
Anon 4:11 - Have you been reading this blog? No one is saying HB is not a great preacher. Everyone agrees he is an excellent presenter of God's word, and is definitely called of God to preach.
The issue is not his ability in the pulpit to deliver an inspiring message. The issues are his credentials (or lack thereof), and his experience (or lack thereof), especially in light of the situation with dealing with victims who may still be attending Shiloh, and the upcoming trial in regard to DG. Throwing a young pastor into that kind of kettle with the water already boiling isn't fair to the young pastor. Experience and wisdom would be a great help to the head of Shiloh's leadership team.
I find it offensive that there are those on this blog who seem to have forgotten what happened at Shiloh under DG's leadership. Yes, the church "grew" and I'm sure the coffers expanded greatly under DG. But let's not forget the heinous acts that took place, and those who have suffered because of DG.
The new pastor, whoever he is, will have to deal with what DG left behind. If he doesn't, Shiloh will suffer. The Bible says every member in the body is important (cf. I Cor. 12:18-27).
I Cor. 12:26 says, "And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it...."
It seems Shiloh has been suffering for a long time under DG's leadership. Many members know that. Many who have left know that. And it seems there are many in Shiloh's leadership who are in denial about the suffering.
The new pastor needs to understand there are those in the Shiloh body who are suffering. And, as the deacon who confessed on this blog made known, the leadership has failed the women victims of DG by not adequately protecting them, believing them, ministering to them.
Yes, some might hope that any victims of DG will just move on to another church. You might even encourage them to do so by ostracizing them. That's one way to solve the "problem." But that's not the way of our Lord Jesus. Members vital to the Shiloh body are hurting. What will the new pastor bring to help those who are suffering?
It's not about preaching...it's about healing the body, and restoring Shiloh's body to unity and love in Christ Jesus so the work of the church can bring honor and glory to God.
I sure hope Shiloh makes the right decision in selecting a new pastor. This really is an important decision. It's vital.
There are those at Shiloh who want to just "move on." They're tired of all this DG stuff! They don't want to hear anything more about it. They just want to "get on with church" and have things go back to the way they were before we all knew about what DG was doing! If anyone reading this blog is in that camp, I implore you to reconsider your position, and give the selection of your new pastor thoughtful consideration as you pray. Do you want a leader who can merely tickle your ears, or do you want a pastor who can bring restoration, unity, and a new purpose and direction to Shiloh?
To the person who commented that;
"Also, I don't necessarily agree that because you don't have a degree it means you can't ask for and get a 6-figure salary. I know people that do it in every walk of life; e.g. my mother works for a Fortune 500 company, never completed her degree but has a top position and salary that rivals many of the 30 yo college grads. She gets it because she is doggone good at what she does".
That's great and I'm sure your mom deserves it. However, did she make that on Day 1 with that Fortune 500company or did she have to "work" for it by meeting set-upon guidelines and proving that she was "good at her job" before the increase?
Anon 11:50 pm,
I see where you are coming from, but you are assuming he has no credentials or experience. I think 18 years would qualify as experience. Also for every person that made it with education ,I can show someone whom God used who didn't have education. God can use whomever He wants. Again, man looks at the outer appearance(age, stature,education, etc) but God looks at the heart!
Why do you assume he has no vision for the church? Why do you assume he will not be able to help heal and restore Shiloh thru the preaching of God's Word. It's not the man who needs to heal Shiloh, it's the Word of God. I have said this before, we have been with out a pastor for 8 months. I hope no one hurt or discouraged about what happened has been waiting for the next pastor to start healing and moving forward. That truly is an insult to God! He, after all, is THE HEALER and THE COMFORTER, and able to help and deliver in any way you need Him. I'm not quite sure why you feel the next pastor needs to deal with the trial. That is what the court system does, besides DG put himself in that place. The next pastor will need to keep Shiloh focused on the word of God.
I made the statement about my mother simply to show that God can use someone who didn't complete their college degree, or is young in age, or who has been abused, to do great and mighty things. God's power in your life does not have to be limited by those things. For every person that says HB is too young, I can show you in the Bible where God purposely chose and used someone considered by man to be too young. God uses the too young, the uneducated, the sinful, all can be used by HIM! Of course my mother had to work for it, just as we expect then next pastor to. But she would be the first to tell you, "I shouldn't be here".According to man, because she is not degreed, she shouldn't/wouldn't be. BUT GOD!!!
The fact of the matter is that we ARE going to vote on a new pastor tomorrow....we ARE going to move on and put what happened under Gilyard's leadership behind us. What purpose would it serve to linger and dwell on the past? We definitely haven't forgotten but we have chosen to let it go!!! His case is in the hands of God and the legal system.
If the direction in which Shiloh is moving bothers you.....maybe Shiloh is no longer the church for you. If you are not a member....what Shiloh decides to do shouldn't concern you...at all.
What specifically has HB done/said/promised in regard to his for Shiloh?
So far he has preached. And a lot of people--especially the church leaders apparently--really like his preaching. What did he preach about?
On his last visit, he preached about "forgiveness." Whether that was just "coincidental" or not, for him to choose that topic was inappropriate in light of the fact there are victims/survivors of DG listening to him. You would have to know and understand clergy sexual abuse to understand that. If you are ignorant of the damage that clergy sexual abuse creates, then you can't understand how a sermon on forgiveness could do more harm than good.
It's not that forgiveness is a bad subject, or that victims/survivors shouldn't forgive those who have hurt them. Ultimately, they should. But forgiveness needs to be up to the victim, not some preacher trying to guilt-trip her into forgiving before she's ready to forgive. It takes a lot of healing to get to the point that a victim/survivor of clergy sexual abuse can forgive. That can take years of hard work on her part, and the prayers and support of those around her.
So, for this uncredentialed, relatively inexperienced 35 year old preacher to come in and preach about forgiveness only demonstrates his lack in ministering to Shiloh. He totally disregarded the victims/survivors of DG. Those victims/survivors, as has been demonstrated by the Word of God (cf. I Cor. 12) are a vital part of Shiloh's congregation.
If HB is so great and capable of handling the situation at Shiloh, how is it that he disregarded the victims/survivors?
Sorry, I meant to say, "What specifically has HB done/said/promised in regard to his vision for Shiloh?
anon July 29, 2008 9:23 AM It sounds like you may be someone that was victimized by DG. If that is true then I pray that God comfort and sustain through your trials. I, and other members here have tremendous compassion for victims of clergy sexual abuse wherever it occurs. If that is not true then you sound very bitter. You have latched onto a sermon about forgiveness as if it is something that is applicable only to what happened at Shiloh. Are there not other areas in our lives where forgiveness is necessary? When Eph 4:32 said "And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you." it wasn't talking about DG or Shiloh. Is the subject of forgiveness taboo because of what happened at Shiloh? If so then what is the next thing to happen that the preacher will have to avoid sermonizing: murder, adultery, homosexuality, stealing, lying? God forbid that the man of God cannot preach the whole counsel of God because it offends.
It appears that your issue is HB: his preaching, credentials, age, experience, and everything else you find objectionable concerning him as a choice for pastor of Shiloh. If you are a member, vote your convictions. If not, what you say here won't effect the outcome one way or another.
anon 7/28/2008 4;11pm
You said we would have 3 choices---HB, Evans, and neither. I thought we would have 3 candidates. Did I miss something? Can anyone clarify? I watched the jumbo-tron and I thoought I saw another preacher's excerpts.
I agree with you Anon 10:17 am. Anon 9:23 am was either a victim or very bitter about something in his/her life. You are the only person that feels his sermon on forgiveness was insensitive, the congregation as a whole does not feel that way. If you want to know what he has preached there are 3 sermons you can listen to on Shilohmedia.com.
None of the candidates have come to the pulpit promising Shiloh anything. They have done what they are supposed to do and that is preach the Word of God. When one of them is given the job of pastor, that will be the time to make statements of that nature.
As previously stated, members of Shiloh will be voting Wednesday for our next pastor and very excited about it. I don't get the feeling you are a member, so your opinions won't change that in any way. We are excited about what God is getting ready to do! Be Blessed!
Anon 11:36 - You said, "When one of them is given the job of pastor, that will be the time to make statements of that nature" (i.e., decide what to do at Shiloh as Shiloh's pastor.
If you don't know what a prospective pastor intends to do as Shiloh's senior pastor, then how can you make a sound decision as to which candidate to vote for?
A good preacher doesn't necessarily make a good pastor.
Anon 10:17 - I am so glad to hear you say you have "tremendous compassion for victims of clergy sexual abuse wherever it happens." What have you personally done to help victims of clergy sexual abuse?
That, after all, IS the topic of this blog. This blog was begun by one of DG's victims in order to stop him, and men like him. Tiffany took a stand when many others, in positions of authority over DG, failed to stop him before he hurt many, many women, and now two teens who had the courage and the laws behind them to finally take action.
HB's sermon on forgiveness isn't applicable to Shiloh. There are many of his victims who haven't had enough healing to "forgive" DG, and even if they did, DG would have to be placed in a position under them (cf. Joseph and his brothers from Gen. 50) before they could forgive. Any honest biblical study on forgiveness will tell you that.
There's no bitterness here...just reality and God's word.
Anon 12:34pm, that is not true and I have had personal experience with abuse. My mother, brother and I were abused by my father. My father has yet to repent, that I'm aware of and has yet to apologize to any of us as of this date. I know first hand that the 'same power that raised Jesus from the dead, is the same power available to us'. We refused to allow some man's evil destroy our lives and keep us from victory in our lives. We prayed, studied the Word of God, and relied on our heavenly Father to heal us from what our earthly father did to us. I can truly say we have forgiven him, and he has not been placed under our feet. Your account of forgiveness is incorrect! We are all successful, healthy in body and mind, and most importantly IN CHRIST. Jesus died so that we could have salvation and all the benefits of being adopted into the family of Christ, which includes victory over sin! I am so glad we did not take your position, but relied on what we know is available to us thru Christ! Our lives could have had a very different outcome, but PRAISE GOD!
As for my father, we pray for him daily but realize that he is a truly stubborn man. Only GOD Himself can bring that man to repentance and change his heart. According to your logic, we should still be waiting after 40 years to forgive him and move on! GOD FORBID! That is NOT the GOD I know, love and serve!!
anon 12:34pm If you want to know what I've done to help in the area of sexual abuse look at some of my posts here and in other sections of this blog.
So God's Word on forgiveness does not apply to Shiloh? Strange logic!
I wonder if God is pleased by what is happening here on this blog????
Anon 2:00 - YOU are the one who implied HB's sermon on forgiveness wasn't applicable to the situation at Shiloh, not me. I was just agreeing with you because in reality, it doesn't apply to the victims of DG--at least not until the victims/survivors are ready to forgive. I think the SA already placed DG under everyone's feet by arresting him.
Of course God's word on forgiveness applies to the situation at Shiloh, and applies to victims of clergy sexual abuse. I did not intend to say it didn't; quite the contrary. Reread what I said. I'm sorry if you misunderstood.
I asked what you have personally done to help victims of clergy sexual abuse, and you stated that I need only to your blogs, but you haven't identified yourself. There have been a few people who have commented on this post who have offered real help, understanding and support of victims of clergy sexual abuse. You haven't stated anything other than blogging on this site as your means of helping victims of clergy sexual abuse. How has blogging on this site helped victims of clergy sexual abuse?
I'm sure you are aware, since you are so informed about clergy sexual abuse victims/survivors, of what victims/survivors need to regain wholeness in their lives.
Anon 1:14 - I am truly sorry your father abused your mom, your brother and you. He was not acting like a father should.
Moving on with your life, and not allowing your father's evil to hinder you from growth, is not necessarily forgiving your father. It simply means you have made a decision not to retaliate against him, or allow him to abuse you any further. You have "let it go," something that many today confuse with biblical forgiveness. By the way, I am not against letting it go. Retaliating doesn't make it right, and doesn't help in the healing process, as you know.
Forgiveness, as taught in the Bible, requirees the one who did the offense to confess and repent. If your father hasn't done that, then he does not want to be forgiven for what he did. It's as simple as that. Further, the fact that he is in a position of authority over you, makes it impossible for you to forgive him.
In every instance in the Bible where one person forgives another of an offense, the person who forgave is in a position of greater authority/power than the one who was forgiven.
So, even if your father did want to be forgiven, he would have to confess that he was less than a father to you.
That's exactly what Joseph's brothers did in Gen 50. They confessed their evil against Joseph, repented, and lowered themselves as Joseph's older brothers by proclaiming they were his servants. Only then was Joseph able to forgive them for all they did to him.
It would be great to think that your father would confess and repent, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It's very unlikely unless he gets some serious help. Should we stop praying for your father's repentance? No. But the reality is it's very difficult for a domestic violence abuser to change his ways.
Again, I am sorry that happened to you.
Sorry, Anon8:39 pm. I do not agree with your description of forgiveness and i don't believe it is based on Bible doctrine. There is nothing you can say that can negate my forgiveness of him and my testimony. You may be able to sell that to some other weak minded people, but I'm not believing that.
I will invite you to Shiloh though, when our new pastor is installed. Maybe you can come and get some good Bible expository preaching. I will go to bed this evening praising God that I have forgiven others and for the awesome work He continues to do in my life!
Romans 5:6-8 says, "For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." The notion that forgiveness is contingent on the actions of others is unbiblical. Our example for life starts at the cross of Calvary. While difficult, all of us must forgive people who sometimes are not even seeking forgiveness. Just as Christ died for us before we even displayed any desire for salvation.
In addition, H.B.’s sermon clearly addressed the need to deal with the realities of our hurt and see God in it all. Thus, live godly despite those realities. This is why James tells us to consider it a joy when trails come. The reason is that God is using those things to perfect us. Forgiveness is the result of confidence in God’s goodness. This what the individual is talking about with his or her father. Dealing with those realities and saying God I trust you more than that person’s actions. This empowered them to forgive their dad even though he has showed no sign of wanting to be forgiven.
Furthermore, Joseph’s brothers were not seeking forgiveness, but immunity. They only submitted to him after seeing Joseph’s forgiveness. This is just the opposite of what the critic of the sermon is saying. Also, see the story of Job, who did not receive healing until he forgave his friends for their judgmental ways. Oh the irony!
The person who is bad mouthing that sermon has either not heard it or heard it but has an agenda that is blinding them or just want to distort the people’s perspective of H.B. Then he seasoned his attacks on the sermon with personal attacks of H.B. I think these pseudo attacks confirm H.B.’s viability as an outstanding pastor. What age is acceptable to you? Age does not mean a person is wise and vice the versa. Education? You can listen to ten minutes of him preaching and note that he is a learned man. Plus, his pastoral experience is more proof that this man is intelligent. On top of this, he has contributed to two books that were edited by men from The Master’s Seminary and Princeton Seminary. These learned men felt H.B. was qualified to talk about preaching and moral purity.
This is also ironic because these are the two qualities that the scripture demand for the office of a pastor. I Timothy 3 and Titus 2 speak of morally purity plus the commitment and ability to preach and teach sound doctrine. Shiloh must be praying that God’s will be done, not Sylvia Watts, Kay, Pastor Rod or even mine. God will be glorified when His people pray, vote then support whoever God places as their spiritual leader.
This blog may be therapeutic to some, but only devotion to God will give spiritual illumination concerning theses issues. The sister, as a former victim, started it to ensure civil justice is served, which is great. But God and only God will execute spiritual justice. I agree that members that have a problem or concern about the process should take that up with their leaders, not a blog. This just turns your concerns, which may be legitimate, into idle chatter.
Plus, getting involved in unfounded and/or uninformed personal insults on any of these great men of God is wrong. Both of these men have displayed nothing but spiritual maturity. They both are sacrificing greatly to follow God leading to pursuit this position as pastor. Let us pray for them, not talk trash about them. God is the ultimately pastor of the church. He, the man God selects and Shiloh elects, will just be the undershepherd. God will take care of His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. This I know! I am praying for you Shiloh!
Anon 12:55 pm.
AMEN, AMEN and AMEN!!!
Those words ring nothing, but true!
Amen...Amen...Amen...and Thank you!
To the anonymous person who made the last post that really made any sense...Thnak you so much for allowing the spirit use you to turn this blog around...idle gossip is running amuck on this blog and throughout the church community...God bless you for being lead by the spirit and not being apart of the corrupt communication.
Anon 12:55p Jul 30,
Thank you!!!! I don't anyone could have said it any better!! Maybe you should consider ministry.
Amen...Again
Thank Anonymous one...Someone has the things of God in mind, and it's not idle gossip...Amen
To anon July 29 10:17 & 11:36am, I also feel that a sermon at this time on forgiveness is inappropriate and insensitive. The person that you are responding to in no way stands alone. I assure you.
Also instead of telling that individual in essence to butt out and mind their own business, you might try being open-minded and listening. Please! be slow to speak. Meditate.
I'm sorry but your scope IS narrow. And I hope this HB is not the same way. No one here on this blog needs you to beckon or send them away from Shiloh.
Well, I can obviously see some one is bent onmaking this blog about the Shiloh church and Pastor HB. The truth of the matter is that a message of forgiveness is alway inorder and always appropriate. is that not what Christ did for us, while we we yet in our trespasses and sin...may I suggest to each of you who call yourself bloggers and such, which is just a modern day word for gossipers...Leave God's church alone, and leave pastor HB and any other minister alone...This blog site as I recall and have re-read in the initial commenst posted by Ms Croft was designed to focus on CSA and trying to stop such behavior coming out of God's churches...maybe the site should re-titled with "Let's stop the Corrupt Commication Together"...Christian folk...please stop and repent, and re-direct the focus of which this site was created...What is wron with you people?
A message on forgiveness shouldn't be preached??? What??? It's insensitive and inappropriate??? What??? Lord, what is wrong with you man...or woman, since you are making your comments anonymously...If one does not forgive, spirtual healing cannot take place...Punishment for wrong doing is inevitable for any criminal, but the Christain...Real Christian!!...We are commissioned to fogive ,a Thank God for ministers who will stand up, flat foted and preach it like it should be preached!!!...
What if God chose not to forgive you? What if he decided that you asking Him for forgiveness was inappropriate and insensitive...after you had wallowed in sin and degradation???
You people need to stop acting like lost folk......that is if you are truly saved.
God instructs us to forgive...no negotiation!!!
And don't even respond because I don't read anything you have to say....silly self!!!
You can chose not to forgive it you want.....that's your soul.
Right on my sister/brother...You must be an evangelist, because you really put some word out there to the anonymous one who thinks that a message on forgiveness is inappropriate and insensitive...If you gonna make it in, you betta try to forgive somebody...Maybe you should start with yourself, for makinig such an idiotic commeent...Glory to the Lamb for his forgiveness of sin.
Pastor Rod,
What's your take on forgiveness?
WOW!!!...Christians should never be called weak...Thanks for the post "Oh wise ones"...
The bottom line is what happened to the vote on last night? Have you guys heard the results yet?
So what was/is the results? By the way, here is an interesting thing that Shiloh might not know about HB, assuming he's the going to be the new pastor.
While he didn't do it for you guys when he preached at Shiloh, but HB is a strong "Whooper!" If your church is not use to that style, and I know Darrell was not a whooper, you guys better get ready for "traditional" whooping at the close of the sermon.
As I listened to HB on the media site, I could tell he was holding back and didn't want to go into his whooping. If you don't believe me, go on youtube right now and you will hear him doing some major whooping!
Therefore, Shiloh had better get ready for a major change in preaching style and I must say I think that's funny. HB is something else! I love him though. :-)
So what if he knows how to "whoop"? Why should you care? You aren't a Shilite. If you were you wouldn't be asking about the election results. Find sometime besides what's happening at Shiloh to occupy your time.
To the last post by Anonymous, for the record, this blog isn't about Shiloh either! Why are you on here discussing Shiloh's issues?
You and a few others opened the door. The point is, HB will take Shiloh in a direction of preaching style that she isn't prepared for, but he didn't want you guys to know it while he was candidating.
Shiloh will probably turn into Bethel and the Mckissics! Rudy jr. is a whooper too! When HB preached and at the end of his sermon he said, "Hey, hey", that was a sign that he was testing you guys to see if you would get with him.....should he decide to whoop it out!
Therefore, if HB comes to Shiloh, she must be prepared for "Sunday at Shiloh will be whooping time!"
Signed,
Another Whooper!
I don't care who your new pastor is or what you all are doing at Shiloh just as long as it doesn't entail kids being molested or women being abused by CSA. May I remind you how Shiloh's name got in everybody's mouth! Keep your housekeeping about Shiloh to yourself, on this blog we are trying to keep the fight alive about stopping a particular pastor Darrell Gilyard from victimizing any boy, girl, or woman ever again! This is my fervent prayer and also the POINT of this blog!!!!!!!!!!! Geez!!!!!!!!!! Keep your housekeeping at home. This site IS NOT about Shiloh.
Forgivness is two-fold.First let's look at it from God's point of veiw as our guide.There is the offender(sinners)and the Offended(God).In order for the two-fold process of forgiveness to be completed,there has to the confession of the offender(sinner) ion and forgiveness from the offended(God).Now let's imagine that the offender(sinner)does not asked to be forgiven,then God will not forgive him.At the same time God still loves the offender(sinner)and demonstrates this fact by His kindness,patience,endurance and gentleness toward him not wanting him not to perish.The forgiveness therefore is not complete and resotration of the relationship remains un-restored.For example;Jesus cried out to His Father "forgive them; For they know not what they do"(Lk.23:34) Were they forgiven? Yet Peter in Acts 2:23 accused them;"Ye have taken,and by wicked hands have crucified and slain"(The Christ).In verse 36 Peter stated "That God hath made that same Jesus WHOM YE HAVE CRUCIFIED,both Lord and Christ".Then Peter offers them the opportunity to be forgiven of this horrible act in verse 38 by repenting for the forgiveness of there sin(offense toward God).Now let's look at it from the Christian's point of view.We are commanded to first to love God and secondly to love one another.Jesus was so bold as to further command that we love our enemies.Then we are commanded by Paul "Be Ye therefore followers(imitators)of God,as dear children"[Eph.5:1].In a nut-shell our desire to forgive should imitate that of God(Christ),and though the offending party may not have asked forgiveness,we should endeavor to hold no malice toward the offender and be willing to complete the forgiveness process if the oppotunity presents itself.Remember this.If someone sins against us;the greater sins in against God,and Paul wrote that "Vengeance is Mine;I will repay,saith the Lord[Rom.12:19B].Much more I could blog on this subject;But I'm stretched for time.
Re Pastor Rod 080108@ 6:19 am: It is interesting that Jesus himself was the one praying to the Father that the Father would forgive. Could it be that the pain of the cross was so debilitating that Jesus as flesh and in the moment could not handle forgiving those who were lynching Him?
Jesus did not say "Father, I forgive them." He said "Father, (you) forgive them. God indeed has forgiven us all, including DG and HB.
Anon 9:53 - There are several theologians who believe Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who had crucified Him because Jesus had depleted Himself of all authority when He came to earth. He came as a servant. And certainly on the cross, He was a sacrificial lamb. As such, He could not forgive them. Therefore, He asked His Father--who did have the authority--to forgive them.
Pastor Rod - AMEN to your comments on forgiveness.
If I might be so bold as to add that in the Old Testament--from which we get our model for forgiveness based on sacrifice--there were two kinds of offenses (sins). The first were offenses against God, like for instance, taking the name of the Lord in vain. The second were offenses against one another, like if someone steals from his neighbor. Both kinds of offenses offend God (because they violate God's laws, i.e., the 10 commandments). Both had a little different approach for the offender if the offender desired to be forgiven. But whether the offense was against God or against another human being, it is always the responsibility of the offender to seek to be forgiven. And the offended is always to forgive without malice if the offended person seeks forgiveness. Pastor Rod said, "...if the opportunity presents itself."
As part of "seeking forgiveness," the Old Testament model requires some conditions.
The first condition is that the offender agrees with the offended person as to the offense. We call this confession. The offender must confess to the sin.
The second condition is something those in the Jewish faith today call "teshuvah." That involves repentance (turning away from the sin, deciding never to do the sin again), as well as making restitution to the offended person before forgiveness can be granted. That doesn't just mean saying your sorry or giving back what was stolen; the offender is to give back more than what was stolen with a contrite heart. This concept is why our courts today grant "punitive damages."
Further, in every instance where forgiveness was granted in the Old Testament (and also in the New Testament), the one who forgave was in a position of power/authority over the offender.
The Old Testament model of forgiveness is important to Christians today because it is the same model Jesus taught. Jesus (and the apostle Paul) did not have to expound on the teaching of forgiveness because people understood what forgiveness meant. Even the pagans of that day had the idea of forgiveness meaning to right the wrongs of offenses committed so that the relationship could be restored.
And, indeed, the Greek word "to forgive," ephiemi, carries the same meaning as the Hebrew word "to forgive" used in the Old Testament. The word ephiemi is used at least 40 times in the New Testament.
So, where does the idea of unconditional forgiveness come from? And how did that get to be applied to Christians having to forgive evildoers who cause great harm to the offended--harm for which restitution is impossible, as in cases of rape, incest, sexual abuse?
In trying to give some guidelines to churches, specifically the churches at Colossae and Ephesus, Paul introduces a new concept of "unconditional forgiveness." This is the English translation of the Greek word charizomai from which we get our word charisma. It is used only 10 times in the New Testament.
In instructing believers on how to live in unity in the church, Paul commands Christians to unconditionally forgive one another. The basis for this forgiveness is NOT the redemptive work of Jesus on the cross as much as it is a sense of not allowing little annoyances to tear apart the unity of believers in the church. For example, Paul told the belivers not to take one another to court over little issues, but rather to simply let it go.
An example of "letting it go" might be if your neighbor's leaves fall into your swimming pool. Rather than take your neighbor to court over the leaves, simply clean up the leaves and "let it go." It's not a big deal. Keep the peace with your neighbor.
So much more could be said.
Someone above mentioned Rom 5:6-8 as the reason why victims should unconditionally forgive the perpetrator. In all of my 38 years of being a Christian, I have never heard that passage used to explain forgiveness!
Rom 5:6-8 explains why God is justified in crediting righteousness to us (Rom 4) based on the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross. This justification, and the redemptive work of Jesus, merely OPENS THE WAY for forgiveness. In other words, it makes forgiveness possible so that we don't have to go to the Temple to offer sacrifices for our sin. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.
But an offender (sinner) still needs to seek to be forgiven. Forgiveness does not automatically come to every sinner. It is only those who confess and repent who are forgiven.
Continuing on in Rom 6:1,2 Paul asks the rhetorical question, "What should we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? CERTAINLY NOT!" Grace does not mean we have a license to sin.
Anon Aug 1,2008 12:49pm.Thank you for those extensive comments on forgiveness,they were excellent.
Thank you for your comments on forgiveness. As a survivor of clergy sexual abuse, I can understand how important this issue is. I've had many very well-meaning Christians command, even demand, that I forgive the pastor perpetrator who hurt me. I have never felt good about doing so. Something just wasn't right.
And I've received testimony from too many victim/survivors of clergy sexual abuse who were brought before their congregations, and commanded by the church leadership to forgive the pastor perpetrator (without the pastor perpetrator being held accountable in any real way; without contrition for his deeds). Usually, the perpetrating pastor is either restored to the pulpit, or allowed to resign--many times with a hefty stipend to send him on his way. No real help for the victim, and no real help for the pastor perpetrator is given.
Many incest survivors who have "forgiven" their perpetrators out of a desire to move on with their lives--something which I can certainly understand--tell me I should do the same. The reason is not to restore any relationship or even right any wrongs, but so I can get "healing." But real healing doesn't come from a "fantasy" forgiveness (cf. this term in the book Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman, M.D.).
It would be nice, but there is no magic wand of forgiveness to expel the painful wounds of clergy sexual abuse. It ultimately takes facing what happened and mourning the losses to gain recovery and wholeness. That takes a lot of courage and support from those who love the victim/survivor.
For those victims/survivors who have forgiven their perpetrators, that is fine if you were led by the Lord to do so. I'm not saying you did anything wrong in the least. Doing so does help elevate your mood, and helps you cope with life again. I'm just saying it is not the way for everyone to get healing for what happened.
And for errant pastors who do atrocious acts against members of their congregations, listen up. Yes, forgiveness is available for your sins. God loves you. He understands your deepest pains, and why you do what you do. God doesn't condone what you are doing. He is angered by it. But he also wants you to come clean, so you, too, can understand what real forgiveness is about. But forgiveness has conditions.
In order for a pastor who behaves like a sex offender to be forgiven, the pastor/sex offender must first tell the truth about what he (or she) has done. Then those who are in authority (whether it be church leaders or law officials) need to step in, remove the pastor perpetrator from his position of leadership, and hold him accountable for his actions.
Then the pastor perpetrator might (and I say might depending on the severity of his psychological disorder) understand that he did something wrong which requires forgiveness in order to be right with God and his community. And if he seeks forgiveness with a contrite heart, there is hope for him.
But, unfortunately and sadly, I haven't heard of very many pastor perpetrators who've sought to be forgiven for what they did; at least not seriously.
Again, thank you for your comments and clarification. Forgiveness is good news to any repentant heart. It should never be used as a weapon to further harm a victim of clergy sexual abuse.
Sharon Rose
Forgiveness is very important! however, I agree with many of you who have said that there must be ownership of one's sins before forgiveness can be extended.
The Bible says "if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Has DG truly repented and "confessed" his sins? To confess means to agree with God about your sin. If he has pleaded not guilty, then that is a clear sign that he hasn't owned up to his sins as it relates to these young girls and the countless other women with whom he has sinned.
Pastor Rod,
Thank you for your comments! As always, I enjoy reading the words of wisdom you share with us. You have brought SO MUCH to this blog, and I thank God for you.
Anon, Aug 1,2008 12:49 pm
Thank you for your wonderful insights on forgiveness!
You two are AWESOME!
Ms. J.
DG,
You still have not repented in the wake of all that they have on you. Rumors have been planted that the charges are dropped or will be, you've been promised nothing will happen and that is simply NOT true.
I know you pray to God to get another chance and you will not do it anymore , however you have had too many chances to stop this sickness that you have. God knows and you know what you've done. I pray for you often that the Holy Spirit speak to you, but I guess if you're not in His will how can you hear???
I hurt for your wife as she endures this madness. God be with you as He is the only one that can truly punish you.
The law of the land will prevail as well. Get your suit ready!
Ms. J - Thank you for your kind words, but let's keep the praise where it belongs: Praise to God and His word. He has been leading and directing on this blog site.
God hears the cries of every victim of clergy sexual abuse; He feels the pain; He sees the tears falling and collects them as a witness; He comforts those who mourn. He puts the broken pieces back together. His Word speaks the truth against sexual immorality. To God be the glory.
Anon 8-1-08, 12:49
Anon 8-1-08 12:49 You are absolutely correct all honor and praise belongs to our God.I also ditto Ms J.'s comments and thank you for your humilty and Biblical insight.May the Lord continue to bless you with His wisdom.
DG is GUILTY!!!!
I pray that God knock him to his knees. He should be taking this time to get alone with God vs. telling people he's going to get off and saying its no big deal.
It appears that Hank Cox mostly defends those who are guilty, that could just be perception.
Hank is expensive and DG's money has got to be running out. No that's right, First Timothy is taking up collections for him.
Wonder if he will barter for Hank's representation.
Is he still in Queen's Harbour?
Lady T
I forgive DG, however he must be punished by the law. He needs to man-up and take his due punishment.
Relative of one of the victims.
Well, I have not commented in a while because much of what is said here right now is about Shiloh and I do not get involved with that because it is not my church.
I created this blog for awareness of what DG has gotten away with for so many years, and hopefully to encourage the victims to come forward. The case is more behind the scenes at this time and there is no "News" to report and the blog has taken the direction of people having a place to be heard.
At this time I have to step in to speak out for my friend Pastor Rod. James Junior, you have Pastor Rod pegged all wrong, he has been a very strong voice and prayer warrior. He and his dear wife have lent great support and stuck their necks way out for the right reasons. Notice that he has not defended himself against your latest comments, much of the time that is a sign of innocence and no need for justification by him. He actually is also a friend of my Father and family, he was beside me in court when my husband could not be there and he and his wife have helped in countless ways with the investigation and this blog. He is a man of charachter and a man of God. I wanted to clarify that for all readers (though many of you already know) he is not the enemy here and should be commended for his charachter. I fully agree that it was not his place or his calling to picket the church. But rest assured that he is praying for God's direction and will act accordingly.
Also, to the Deacon who apologized here - WOW! Thank you for your honesty and for breaking the silence. I hope others will follow your lead!
One other comment - I am thankful that so many of you continue to come to this blog, many faithful readers. When I made the comment above about it taking a different direction, I need to clarify that I am glad it is a place where you all can comment and air your frustrations and opinions and questions.
I want to congratulate the Shiolh Baptist Church on their election of Rev. H.B. Charles, Jr. to become the next pastor! He is, without question, a great young preacher!
I sincerely hope that this "marriage" between pastor and people turns out for the glory of Almighty God! Be patient with him and don't expect a 35 year old to be a 50 year old.
Blessings to You!
One of the best things I believe should happen on this blog is for folk to leave other ministers names off of here...It's about time Ms Croft made comment as to why this blog was created, and I do thank her for FINALLY doing so... The disheartening part of what she finally commented on is the encouragement of "IDLE GOSSIP"...She masked that comment by saying that this is a place to, air frustration, voice opinions and ask questions.If one has an alt with his, or her brother, then the appropriate place to take that question, concern, or release of frustration is to that person. Futhermore the best place to ask questions and have them answered is in the Bible...Not to a public blog, where many folk are called out and demeaned so-to-speak...For the folk Mrs. Croft referred to as faithful readers, the correct term to use would be more like "Corrupt Communicators", or more appropriate, "Mud Mashers"...For those of you who have tried to lead readers into the light, I applaud your efforts...Many of you are able to read and decipher through the mess that has been created here, and have tried to use the word of God to enlighten and strengthen...One of the things we as Christians should be trying to do is spread "The Word"...not gossip...We should be trying to make the grape vine a vine that only carries the the word, ultimately to bear and grow sweet, ripened grapes...This should never have been a place to blast other miniters for their preaching styles, or for the way they spread the word in the way it's given to them......To the blogger who commented on another's preacher's style of word delivery, I say to you that very often when I get into my word and study, I have atendency to WHOOP myself... If one can whoop and hollar at a football game over a piece of pig skin moving down the field, then what is wrong with a whole lot of WHOOPING and HOLLering for a God who has provided us with a Savior like Jesus who died for the remition of our sin...For that purpose alone , I could Whoop myself right into a frenzy. If a preacher whoops after teaching the word, then there is nothing wrong with that... After reading some of the foolishness publiched here, I think it may be time that more read, study, digest, internalize, live, and spread "The Word. I assure you that if this is done, more so called beleivers and followers of Christ would WHOOP too. In fact if there was a way to whoop on this key board I'd be whooping right now...Whoop, Whoop, Whoop...Finally Ladies and Gentlemen, and I am using that term very loosely...Please recognize when you are being used for corruption comunication and breaking down,versus erecting and KINGDOM BUILDING..."If I be lifted up from the earth, I'll draw all men unto me"...Can someone help me lift Jesus?...It grieves my spirit, and I'm sure God's to see how many of you have just run amuck and have been so negatively influenced by the many tactics satan uses to tear down the kingdom...Be careful for nothing but by everything with prayer and supplication...Folk pleas, before you decide to post to this blog site, please STOP...THINK...and ASK yourself if it will be edyfing, which means to build up or if your comment is eterllectually or spiritually informing...As a part of my endeavors to spread "The Word", I am making a call out to those who are versed in "The word" to post and blog only scriptures of truth, word's of wisdom, and postive praises to "God Almighty"...Here's the official title Christian Folk..."LETS STOP CORRUPT COMMUNICATION TOGETHER"...NOW POST!
To the very last commenter with the long nonsensical statments:
First, I think you need to go to school for the purpose of learning how to spell and to exercise proper grammar, etc.
In my lifestime, most preachers who whoop are people who, have nothing very much to say! With your spelling and grammar being atrocious, perhaps that's why you feel the need to whoop!
Wow!
How funny, Anon 11:47a had so much to say about the previous blogger's grammar and spelling that he/she had a typo of his/her own. LOL!!!!!
Anon 11:47a, Re-read your blog before you commenting about someone else's grammar and punctuation.
Let's talk about something else. What and the alarming rise in crime in the city of Jacksonville? Let's discuss things we can do to keep the criminals from kicking down our front doors and taking over our city. That is certainly more important than the preaching style of the next pastor of Shiloh.....I would hope. If not, then we have a serious problem.
Ooops!! I made a grammatical error...it seems we all do on this blog!! Lighten up people.
Wow. I agree with a lot of what the blogger stated against me on the August 5, 2008 9:31 AM comment.
It has become a bashing place and a lot of deragatory comments geared toward innocent people - which was not the intent of this blog.
I have tried to monitor truly deragatory comments towards others, but I cannot monitor every comment and discussion. Perhaps this is why so many people are against blogs in general.
Can we please try and turn this boat around "so to speak" and keep on task. It is not a blog about other ministers or churches.Though I know the people of Shiloh are very directly involved here and I welcome you. I do feel your heart ache and concern, I pray for a healthy church environment for you - I really do care about you as a people and as my brothers and sisters in Christ.
Let's try to keep on task. For myself, it has become difficult to keep up with all that is going on here on the blog (with a new baby and the rest of my family) because so much needing to be read is not applicable to my reason for the blog, so I have tended to skim through it. I apologize for comments I have missed or not communicated in a timely manner.
There really is a goal here, thank you for catching the vision and for staying tuned. When the trial begins we will have much more to discuss. Do not believe the rumors of the charges being dropped - completely false!
Mrs. Croft...I fully appreciate your comments concerning the post that have been written on this blog site, and I pray you recieve this comment in the spirit of which it's given...Love...I do think that it is your COMPLETE responsibility to ensure the comments on here stay on task, new baby or not...CSA is an aweful, dispicable thing, and men or women who commit such crimes should be exposed and brought to justice. I am so fed up with so called Christian folk doing things and hiding behind the cross to commit such terrible offenses
With the comments that have been made and continue to be on here toward other ministers and other bloggers is just as wrong as those who commit other offenses...it's called "Corrupt Communication".
I appreciate your efforts in exposing DG and other clergymen or women who have committed such offenses...I am asking that you get a sitter, a nanny, your husband, a friend, or whomever and do what ever it takes to assist you with your family responsibilites in order to better maintain your site.
As christians, we not only have a responsibility to expose sex crimes, but we also have a responsibity to dispose of currupt communication or vial comments toward others especially to the body of Christ.
There should be no comments on here concerning Pastor HB or Pastor Evans or any other astor for that matter unless it is to support the intended purpose of which you described in the initial comments.
Just as you created your children and they are your responsiblity, you also created this site and it too is your responsibility. New baby, 5 children or not...you have a responsiblity, if that responsibilty cannot be fulfilled, then perhaps this entire blog site should be desolved.
I do believe it serves a valiant purpose. I am just so disheartened by the attack on the Kingdom, and yes corruspt communication is an attack on "Kingdom Building". Please don't let the ignornace of many folk and idle gossip(mess) be the reason why bloggers come to this site. Honor your responsibilty without excuse and don't let satan infect the intended purpose of this site. "Let's STOP Corruupt Communication Together"...It too is a nasty sin... Bless you and yours!
Michael K
You know, I was thinking the other day: if the Deacon who, came on this blog and confessed that he and other Deacons knew what DG was up to, would this admission leave Shiloh Vulnerable to possible future Lawsuits? What do you guys think?
They absolutley can face lawsuits if it can be proven that they knew of Darrell's abuses and did nothing to protect the innocent people(victims).
Michael K - From my own experience with church leaders who try to cover up what happened (and from other victims of clergy sexual abuse that I've spoken with), the people who try to get everyone to stop talking about what happened are either:
(1) corrupt church leaders who are trying to continue to cover up the clergy sexual abuse in their church; or
(2) other believers who are frustrated because there seems to be nothing anyone can do to prevent it.
Either way, the ones who are trying to stop the talking--what you are calling "corrupt communcation"-- are enabling the problem.
This is not a blog site about stopping "corrupt communication." There has been no corrupt communication on this site other than errant church leaders trying to defend a terrible beast, and perhaps their own negligence.
One more word that I hope you take in a spirit of love: clergy sexual abuse is not a "nasty sin." It is evil.
Sharon Rose
nasty sin and evil seems synonymous to me
Tiffany, this is a wonderful place to air greivances of all kinds and preachers are not off limits contrary to what Micheal K. may think. What has been said here is therapy and I will not let him stifle others or myself. This site has helped me get over my pain. My hurt has receded and is nearly all gone. Thank you Tiffany!! Do not underestimate what you have done here. Venting here has been necessary for hurt members of Shiloh, victims, and mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, and other family members and friends of victims. No, I will not shut up and what you are attempting to do is why so many people suffer in silence and refuse to speak of their pain, their grievance, anger and shame. Do you think the Lord Jesus is afraid to hear about Newbill and deacons in Shiloh? Do you think people should not be able to say if they like a preacher or not? ... For what reason?? People can't have an opinion now? I think the church and overseers should be discussed and scrutinized often. Maybe there would be less opportunity for wrongdoing. I will not get back into the box I was in before. That's over.
Furthermore, the idiotic comment this person made about, So what you have a baby! get on here and monitor this thing.(paraphrase)
Frankly, I have been amazed that you have been able to get on as much as you have been. You are doing a phenomenal job Tiffany. He had no need to leave his name, I would have already known it had to be a male with that kind of comment. You have a 4-month old baby! I don't have to say anything else to any woman out there. I am a woman with children myself. You had a family and were in the middle of a pregnancy, you are to be applauded. If you have a wife Michael I am so very sorry for her.
Michael, I am sorry for using "idiotic". Let me say instead that your comments lacked compassion and empathy.
This morning I made a list of the things I'm thankful for. On the list was thanking God for Tiffany, and her courage to speak up, to help the two teens, and also for this blog which has been a wonderful tool to help the victims, and others, understand and sort through the clergy sexual abuse that happened at Shiloh.
And then I read Kay's comment! And had to add to my list:
I'm grateful for the deacon who confessed and repented. He lent valuable information in his confession as to how DG could "get away" with what he was doing, and why the deacons wouldn't do anything about it. It vindicated not just the victims at Shiloh, but victims of clergy sexual abuse everywhere.
I'm grateful for all who have stood with victims of clergy sexual abuse despite heavy criticism (even ostracizing) from church leaders. I speak of Pastor Rod, and of two missionary families from my own church who were stripped of their support after they supported me, and others like them who were bad-mouthed because they believed the unbelievable and stood with the victims.
And I'm thankful for victims who have had the courage to speak up. Clergy sexual abuse is a terrible thing in our churches. Victims and others need to speak up.
Kay, you're right. This blog is good therapy. I have appreciated your comments that reflect your sincererity of heart. I hope we never shut up about what happened.
May the Lord continue to oversee this blog, and bless Tiffany and her family.
Sharon Rose
A very interesting thing is brewing in Los Angeles where Rev. H.B. charles, Jr. still resides. His church is really ticked off with him
Why? They feel betrayed that he is leaving. He talked them into buying some new property for their new church site valued over a couple of million dollars, and now he is leaving!
Pray for Rev. charles as he is going to need it coming to Shiloh. He is going to face the wrath of all the DG die hearts who feel that he "took their man's place!"
Let us please pray for this young man!
Sharon Rose,
Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate the work you are doing. I have been to your website and learned much. May God bless you and your family. Your words on this site are balm to the soul.
Also, thank you Christa!
Wow! I've just heard that Shiloh has offered Rev. H.B. Charles a total package of $ 450,000 in salary and compensation. That is great, and not bad for a young man who has only a High School Diploma! Wow!
You're welcome, Kay. God bless you.
Sharon Rose
It seems that God's favor is on Pastor Charles' life. He is definitely a testament of what God can do!! With God on your side those things that seem impossible (like a six figure salary and no diploma)become possible.
Anon 12:05 am,
That would be a GREAT figure if it were true, but it isn't. It may be possible at some point in the future. HB will have to prove himself to make that kind of money; he is not starting out with such a big package.
To the last poster, according to my sources, that amount is absolutely true! However, if the church have it to give it, then I say Praise the Lord!
Anon 1:57pm,
NOT TRUE!
Anyone who believes that figure ought to have their heads examined.
Whatever he is making is his business not any of yours!!! Get a life people.
Why would that figure be hard to believe? After all, if the Trustees were willing to pay a family nearly $ 300,000 to keep quiet about their daughter's pregnancy, then anything is possible! DG was making well over $ 350,000!
Again, I say if the church has it to give it, then HB should get all he can! :-)
Have you guys heard about Dr. Joseph Evans? He has just got called to a church of 8,000 members in Houston, Texas. Go ahead Evans!
Apparently, he was candidating with two churches at the same time. Very classy man, so I am not surprised.
Anon 9:26pm,
You have to remember, DG was making that kind of money AFTER being pastor for 15 years, he did not start out with that and neither will HB. The potential is there though.
That is wonderful news about pastor Evans; most pastors court or are courted by several churches at the same time, nothing unusual about that. He wasn't what we were looking for at Shiloh but I'm sure he will do a great job!
I'm glad that you guys got HB as your pastor! I think he has more character than DG, though he certainly is not perfect either.
By the way, let me make a confession: I never liked the "Sound" of DG's voice. It was whiney to me. I realize he is a small man, but his voice was a complete turn-off!
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