Upon reader requests, I am creating this spot for general comments and questions. A place that will remain at the top for those of you wishing to leave comments in a fresh place sure to be viewed.
Darrol Gillard's next court date will probably be in September 09 if Hank Coxe has anything to do with it! By the way, how does everyone feel about the STOP SNITCHING movement in the Ponte Vedra Rape Case? Hank Coxe and the parents of the possible defendants have been less than forthcoming! This soft media coverage and blogging is not how it's done on the "other" side of town. Wrong is wrong, and being affluent or attending Bolles doesn't exclude you from God's Justice System. Yep I said it. God is no respector of person. If a young lady was raped, then it's wrong!
I just stumbled across this blog. As a teenager my family attended Victory Baptist Church, where Mr. Gilyard was Pastor. He left Dallas and our church with allegations of sexual advances and harassment. He also was exposed for being less than truthful about his background. This is truly said that 15 years later, Mr. Gilyard is still up to his old tricks, and has only gotten worse, now he is going after teenagers, rather than women of legal consent.
I spoke with someone that works at the SA office and it appears that DG's attorney was recently there arguing that the things being said and reported about his client are simply not true. With the recent R Kelly trial results, unless the SA can make this victim's story stick, DG will be cleared.
Does anyone else find the picture posted by siditty offensive? on June 22 10:57PM What the person said was okay but I don't understand the picture. It feels akin to voyeurism or pornography.
Hey I am anon 6:53pm commenting on the June 12 10:57 post. Please take out and scrap my use of the word voyeurism. That word is way too much for what I meant. I just looked up the definition and was offended a thousand times more than the picture!! Sorry I thought I knew what the word meant. I heard Oprah use it on her show once and thought I understood the context of how to use it. I thought it meant innocently, unpremeditatedly catching someone in a personal private moment such as what the pix seems to display. Now I really do apologize to ANYONE that found my own comment disgusting.
I have "heard through the grapevine" that Shiloh Metropolitan Church has recently made some changes and have been trying to find a good Pastor. I have been told that many of the "Gilyard followers" left and for the most part this has been needed.
I am saying this only to applaud any efforts for cleaning up the church. Also to let those of you that left and are still out of your church home - just so you know you may want to give it a second chance.
Shiloh is not my Church home and I'm not trying to sway anyone here, just giving out the information. This is definitely something one would need to pray about.
The last thing I would want to see is anyone out of church altogether because of this. There are many great Churches in our city.
Thanks for the information. First, my following commentary has nothing to do with you. I don't want to "shoot" the messenger, and I appreciate the fact that you said you "heard it through the grapevine".
The idea that "some" of Gilyard's followers have left is enough to STILL concern me. My understanding is that there are still some there in leadership roles that allowed this man in the pulpit to begin with. There has been no real accountability in the leadership, including Gilyard himself! As an ex-Shiloh member, I'm not convinced that the place has been cleaned up very much, as far as the leaders go. After all, they are the ones who are the ultimate decision makers there. When I think about it, the current Assistant Pastor has been preaching at Shiloh for MANY years. I don't believe he was there when Gilyard was hired, but a person would have to be very naive to think he didn't know about his past, and some of his more recent indiscresions, and he seemingly did nothing about it except to say "yes" to his own preaching position. What's wrong with this picture? Did he not do his homework? Why haven't some Deacons been dealt with? I believe before anyone returns to that church, they should ask themselves these questions, and as you said PRAY!! As for me, I won't be returning.
Ms.J you are correct in your assessment. Most of the leaders at Shiloh new very well about DG's past activities as well as his those he committed while at Shiloh. It was basically about the money he was bringing in and the fact that most of those in position of leadership were/are weak spineless men who wouldn't do anything about the situation. DG knew this about his deacon and trustee boards, but it was exactly what he wanted. That way he could run amok and do whatever he wanted.
It would have been difficult under the circumstances to clean house all at once. It would have been even more devastating to lose your pastor, asst. pastor, deacons, etc all at once, it truly would have been a mess! Things will never be right at Shiloh until that place gets cleaned out! That is why we have to pray that we will get GOD'S man there and he may do his own house cleaning when he gets in the position. Let's pray!!!
The criteria for choosing a pastor is in 1Tim.3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9.After going to Shiloh's web sites and veiwing the standards they are using to select their new pastor,it appears they are making a legitimate effort.But in talking to several friends still at Shiloh,the search commitee have in their minds to pick someone WITH A BIG NAME WHO CAN DRAW PEOPLE.No consideration whether he exposits truthfully the entire counsel of God's Word.And as previously mentioned many of the corrupt people that protected D.G.are still in place.I will say this,it appears that Dea.Pringle is attempting to choose a good man as their new pastor.
I got news yesterday of who Shiloh is leaning toward installing as new pastor. I spent a lot of time today reading up on him online and he seems to be a very good man and just what they need there. (I am praying they won't corrupt him once he gets there) that he is sufficiently strengthened to do the work there, that God will give him all wisdom to keep his eyes on Him and his hand in God's hand. The ch. leaders say they're going to let the congregation vote on who it is but realisticly they will decide and put who they want in there. Won't say who it is since I don't want to influence the outcome unfavorably by saying his name. We'll all see who it is soon enough. Pray for this church.
I am surprised that they're actually looking at someone "good". Can you give any hints to his background or educaion? Maybe he'll make the diffrence and I can return to Shiloh. I've head different names from different people, so I'm not sure who to believe.....
Instead of speculating and spreading rumors about what Shiloh is doing and who they are considering, please continue to pray that the leaders are Spirit led in their decison making process.
You all may not want to admit it but you are spreading rumors!! The things that have been repeated in the last few blogs are hearsay.
Anon 7:01am Hint: He already has a wife and family.:) Anon 10:46am It's fun to speculate in the interim and there's not a thing wrong with it. Lighten up, enjoy life! I already said PRAY for the church for prayer is necessary.
Ms. "K" Your comment actually made me laugh! When I referenced background..it was to pastoral expereince in large ministries and his theology education. THANK GOD he already has a wife and family. He'll certainly need their support. Thanks....I'm praying too!
"Let he that is without sin cast the first stone!" I pray for the church family during their search for another paster. Some of you just don't realize that GOD has orchestrated this entire situation.....for the next pastor to step in the pulpit. We need to ask ourselves are we going to church for the man himself or for a personal relationship with GOD. To GOD be the glory in this situation. As GOD stands to be good all the time through all situations that we encounter.
It is not heresay; we will be voting soon and very soon on our new pastor. He does indeed seem to be a very good man who has been preaching since age 16. We are indeed excited about him; out of all the canidates we have seen he stands out the most. We are still praying that GOD give us spiritual wisdom and guidance in our selection. he should be preaching again 2nd Sunday in July so come visit if you have a chance!
Anon 11:51pm I'm a member of Shiloh and have been following this blog for some time. Why are we talking as if an election has already been decided if there has been no election yet. Isn't everyone's favorite candidate the one that stands out the most to them. Will my vote count if your candidate is not my choice? I'm trying to stay and support Shiloh, but I don't want to be told again that I really don't matter. I think we need a more mature leader. I don't want to go through what we've been through again.
Anon 1:10pm. There is a candidate that has received more positive feedback than any other. Unfortunately, when we vote it will be the majority vote that will select the next pastor and it very well may not be your choice; as it goes with any other election.I do feel they are making every effort to choose a 1Timothy pastor because no one wants what we had in the past. That's why we as a congregation have to pray that GOD gives us discernment to vote for the right man of God.
I whole heartedly agree with anonymous from 7/1/2008 at 1:10pm--that rather suggest to me who I should vote for, let me hear the Preachers equally and make up my own mind. Here is a question, "Why is one preacher coming back to preach on Wednesday (7/9) and Sunday (7/13), and no one has mentioned when the other canidates are coming back to preach? With this in mind, are we under an emperor? Who will lead us when we do in fact get a Pastor? Is this a congregationalist church? Is this a true democracy, or are you trying to disenfranchise the voters of this church? Our state has been known for disenfranchising its voters (ex. Bush/Gore). The church's standard should be based on fairness, equity, truth, and justice---a solid foundation.
You are not well informed. you will have at least 3 to choose from and you will see them again. But everyones favorite can't possibly be the pastor, there will only be one and that will be the one with the MOST votes. You get to vote for your choice as in any democracy but he may or may not be the selection.
I tend to agree with anon. 6/28 10:43am and anon. 7/3 11:02am. The church bosses are trying to get us to rubber stamp their ready made decision. They must really think we're stuck on stupid!!! Sure, we are praying; but are we watching?
Ok for anony. 7/3/2008 1220pm. We are not electing someone for 2 to 4 years. The next person may serve 20 to 40 years. That means if you error, you impact the next generation. After Communion, there are only 3 Sundays left in July if as rumored, we are voting in July. If we are going to see them in a fair way, we have to see them over the next 3 Sundays. So when will we see the other canidates? Will they have the same opportunity before us as does the canidate we know is coming? or will the church boss pick the pastor for us? There is so much that I just don't know.
I'm not sure if the Man that will be in on the 8th and the 12th, knows of all the back door drama , I heard that they asked him back due to some folks that didn't get a chance to hear him, that's what they have said to him. He doesn't come across has wanting to over step or be pushed in front of us, we want GOD to more . I think he is just doing want they asked him, lets not hold that against him. If this is of GOD no man can step in and change anything. Lets keep praying.
If you have an issue with the way things are being handled at Shiloh, instead of complaining about it on this blog(which will not make a difference one way or another) why not take those concerns to the leaders at the church? The contact information for members of the search committee are published in the Vision on a regular basis. This is definitely not the forum to discuss church matters. Things should be done decent and in order.
We will not be voting in July but probably definitely by September. AGAIN, you will have at least 3 candidates to vote on, so your vote will count but AGAIN there can only be one choice. This is why you need to pray for the search committee and all people involved in this process, so that GOD's will is done. PRAY and TRUST GOD!
Is this the "Let's Stop Darrell Gilyard Together" or "Let's bash Shiloh even though we don't know what we're talking about" Blog? Tiffany set this up to address a specific problem in the Church family (and that is brave, commendable, and useful to the cause of Christ). However, it's devolving into rants about "church bosses"--whatever that means, "rubber stamps", and all kinds of uninformed supposition, speculation, rumors, innuendo, and in some cases outright lies--and from what appears to be Shilites! What a shame! Where is the spirituality and the desire for God's will to be done in his church? Consider this: The members of the congregation read a candidate's Bio (provided by the "church bosses") and hears him preach once for 40 minutes or so on a given Sunday--maybe twice if they attend the 8:00 AM service. Search Committee members (and "church bosses") are responsible for examining these candidates thorougly and spend hours reviewing resumes, sermon tapes, CDs, or DVDs; interviewing selected candidates; dining with them while they are in town; observing them "up close and personal"; checking background; and in some cases visiting their home churches, etc. Who is going to have a better insight into the temperment, spirituality, administrative knowledge, sincerity, vision, leadership ability, and so on--the person that hears one sermon or the people that spend days, weeks, and sometime months interacting with these candidates and measuring them against the standards set fortn in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus? Calling a pastor is a serious responsibility and all of the people I know who are involved take it as a sacred duty. Jer. 3:15 says "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". The Church has two responsibilities: Evangelization of the lost and the edification of the Body of Christ. How is that ccomplished? Through the preaching and teaching of the Word of God. Rom 10:14-15 says "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! The Pastor has two responsibilities: The feeding and the protection of the flock. To that end, the responsibility of the "church bosses" is bring before the congregation anointed "Men of God" who can give "the people of God" a "Heart for God" by preaching to them the unadulterated "Word of God". Calling a pastor ain't no popularity or beauty contest and it sho' ain't no democracy. Man proposes-God disposes. This is a spiritual mission. The people of God should be seeking His face and praying for spiritual discernment to recognize the man that He (God), not the "church bosses", has already ordained to lead Shiloh on the next "leg" of this Christian journey. There should also be prayers that the search committee members be guided by the Holy Spirit in all deliberations concerning this matter. When the "bashing" is replaced by continous and fervent prayer there isn't time for speculation about conspiracies by "church bosses" trying to put one over on the people. By the way, a lot of good information concerning the voting date, procedure, short list, etc., is contained in the church newsletter. It's worth a read sometime. Also worth noting: the average time to "fill the pulpit" when a pastor leaves is 18-24 months. Shiloh is preparing for a vote in something short of seven months. Credit that to a rigorous process, a lot of dedicated people, the absence of petty bickering and posturing among the leadership, and the blessing of God. To God be the Glory. Great things He has done!
2 Tim 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Anon 6/28 10:43 You said: "The ch. leaders say they're going to let the congregation vote on who it is but realistically they will decide and put who they want in there. Won't say who it is since I don't want to influence the outcome unfavorably by saying his name,." How does that work? If the outcome is predetermined as you speculate then how can your saying his name influence the outcome? That is curious logic!
Anon 6/30 7:01 AM - You are "surprised that they are looking for someone good?" What did you think--Shiloh would go out looking for a "bad pastor?"
You say some did not hear him. Couldn't they have come to church on the Sunday he preached? I'm sure some missed other preacher's sermons as well. Now you tell us "Back by popular demand". Who knew to ask for their favorite preacher? This sounds like legacy from DG..."do as I say, not as I do". If a member questions anything, that person is ostracized or is "not praying" or is "not led of God". If I disagree with the church boss it doesn't mean that I'm not praying or not led of God. It means I want God to be the "Church Boss". And God hasn't been the church boss in a very long time. This is a blog on the World Wide Web. You cannot control this blog like you control Shiloh. At least the blog allows us a voice. Everyone seems to think that the church boss is making the decision. Even earlier blogs reference one person making the decision who our next pastor will be. I DO have one vote, and that vote may already have been "disenfranchised", but God is still God! And HIS will be Done!
The vote thing is a charade. There will be a perfunctory vote and that is it. You will have the illusion that you were included. I don't trust Shiloh at all. On a larger scale the notion is the masses are not wise enough to make an important and long-term decision. We saw this recently with the Democrat candidate election. Hillary kept saying she had the majority popular vote, at the same time she didn't have the most electoral votes. This point is why she stayed in it so long hoping to sway the unpledged electorates. I did not vote for Hillary (I did vote) I'm just reminding us how "democracy" works. Electoral votes meaning a small group of people in contrast to all the people in this country do in fact ELECT Party candidates and the president. Wake up and stop being naive. Churches in this instant are the same way, they/leaders choose who they want not necessarily who you want. They perceive their judgement to be better than yours. Not saying in the least that I agree with this. Your vote may not count in all the ways you want it to but prayer does count in all of these issues. We may not be able to control the vote but we can reach a God who is on the throne and is sovereign. Herein, do not despair, take heart! God's will will prevail. Pray without ceasing. Do what you can and continue to pray.
I will say I think the reason there is a small group of wise people, hopefully wise, making decisions for the majority ( both political and spiritual) is as a precaution so that the right person can in fact be chosen. That's why as anon 7/4/08 12:05am pointed out "There should also be prayers that the search committee members be guided by the Holy Spirit in all deliberations concerning this matter." And I must admit this does sound like one of your "boss" shilites.lol This is why the leadership in church have to be prayed for and scrutinized. They're leading you!!!
You make a tremendous point anon 12:05am and you do too anon 1:56pm. Enjoyed reading your post. Anon 8:46am I said "leaning toward" meaning their minds could change. You also said to Anon 6/30 7:01 AM - You are "surprised that they are looking for someone good?" What did you think--Shiloh would go out looking for a "bad pastor?" I think anonymous was thinking Shiloh might go looking for someone just to keep bringing the money (meaning people) in as a first priority. You know what anonymous meant. The staff is paid well and they wanna keep getting paid. As we all know the love of money can corupt. Oooh! you better pray!! and get someone in there other than what Gilyard was.
To Kay and others using this blog to talk about what's happening at Shiloh:
You are doing the right thing to discuss this in an open forum. These are exactly the kinds of talks the Search Committee members should be having with as many members of Shiloh as possible.
Given how so many members of Shiloh were hurt by what Gilyard did, and the fact that the "church bosses" have lost trust with many in the congregation (just read this blog!), it would behoove the Search Committee to be certain that as many congregation members as possible are satisfied with a particular candidate.
In other words, don't just rely on visits with the candidate, but talk and listen to members in the congregation--especially those who were directly hurt by Gilyard--to see if a particular candidate is the right man to stand at the helm (cf. Acts 6:1-7 for guidance in this situation). Whoever steps in technically/biblically has the duty to minister to those who have been hurt. He needs to warrant to the congregation that such harm will never happen again, but he also needs to take measures to see it doesn't happen again.
It's not just up to those who have been hurt to "forgive". Rather, the church leaders need to take this opportunity to regain the trust they lost under Gilyard. They need to take an honest look at how Gilyard was able to do what he did under their radar. Those who have been hurt need to be comforted and ministered to. They need to have a say as to who will step into the pulpit.
All of the pastoral candidates need to be fully apprised as to what happened under Gilyard, and the harm Gilyard caused. There are undoubtedly many men who would jump at the chance to take over the reins of such a successful church--success that came at the expense of Gilyard's innocent victims. But the incoming pastor needs to be aware that there are undoubtedly those who have left. What will he do to bring those sheep back to the fold? Those who have chosen to remain at Shiloh need to understand what happened and how it will affect them as church members.
If Shiloh acts too quickly to pick a replacement, then the prayers for God's wisdom and discernment in choosing the right man to lead Shiloh will be in vain, and the congregation of Shiloh may never heal from what Gilyard did.
I am praying for the healing of the congregation of Shiloh. The people of Shiloh need healing before they need a Gilyard replacement. The office of pastor is too important a position to rush.
One thing I know and believe is that this did not surprise GOD! HE knew what would happen with DG and that we would need a pastor. HE has also chosen that pastor; we have to be obedient, diligent and prayerful to see him. I know that many members along with other clergy and the community have been praying about this situation. We have done our best to set the standards, follow the criteria, pray, and investigate our choices. I believe with all my heart that GOD will not fail us! he knows that we love HIS WORD and our church and will not leave the faithful to flounder. How do you know that the pastor we will select is EXACTLY who GOD had in mind all along? Stop criticizing and PRAY!!
This may not be the right forum for my inquiry. If so I apologize, but does anyone know where Marcus Henry is? Some in the Singles' ministry used to call him "chicken wing". I have not seen him since he left Shiloh in 1999 at the same time a lot of others left including Pastor Rod. When all of this came out with Gilyard it made me remember him and I would like to speak to him again. If you know Marcus please contact me or have him contact me at: krd924@bellsouth.net Thank you.
To anon July 8, 2008, 9:56pm. You know where anon July 4th 12:05am was. He was controlling the process as he's doing now. If he is not careful playing God's part, we'll be in the same postion not far down the road. We will be electing another pastor in a few years, if the "church boss" can't control this one. It would do us good to explore our options and at least look at the other candidates as much as we have seen and heard this one. That way, we can properly ascertain God's will, not the church boss's preference. Man looks on the outward appearance, God looks on the heart(1 Sam. 16:7). We need to know the heart of the Preacher. No man---church boss and search committee included----can reveal that to us. But God can. Pray as never before.
It would be "nice" to have a 4,976 person Search Committee, but not very wise. In the absence of a Pastor, the Deacons have the tremendous responsibility to select a candidate, or candidates, to present to the congregation for Pastor. 24 members in good standing were selected; their names, and pictures were published. They have reviewed over 110 resumes, with sermons. Interviews were conducted for 3-4 hours on Saturdays per candidate over the past 4 months. Now we, as members, have the great responsibility of being guided by the Holy Spirit to select the leader for the next generation of Shilites. I take my responsibility serious, and have spoken to some of the committee members to tell them I'm praying for them during the process. I for one, would not be upset for not being chosen to be on the committee, as I believe God causes all things to work out for the good of them that love the Lord, and are the called according to his purpose. So, I will be at The Met tonight at 7:30pm, praying and praising that God continues to bless us through this ordeal, since I was not here to vote on the last Pastor. I truly believe The Best Is Yet To Come! Shilohmedia.com is available for those who choose not to come tonight, or Sunday. Members will have the privilege of voting on one of three candidates presented by the Search Committee. I will be listening, and discussing with an open heart to the Search Committee members I know.
I thought HB did an excellent job last night at Wednesday night service. I will continue to pray that GOD will gives us His spiritual wisdom and make it plain and clear to us who the next pastor will be.
I listened with much anticipation last evening to Rev. Charles. I was anxious to hear the candidate that everyone says the church boss is pushing. There was so much drama and build up before he even spoke. It was like "meet our new pastor", not meet one of our candidates. I was really offended by that. I prayed very hard and enerstly asked that God would open my heart and ears to whatever word HE gave this Man of God. He made a number of good 'points' throughout the message, but there was something missing. There was no power. It was a good message, but with no power. Rev. Charles seems like a very nice man with a very nice family. He tried so hard to please us and to make points that would hit home, but there was no power. At one point, I found myself really praying for him, but the annointing was not there. I was so happy that people came to Christ from his preached word, but I think that Shiloh needs more that a nice preached word. The annointing on the Man of God will always make the difference in that man, and his church. I want Shiloh to begin to make a difference in the body of Christ. I looked at Rev. Charles after he was done, and felt sad for him, because I saw him as a very young man that the leadership could destroy, instead of supporting. I'm really praying with all my heart for God's will to be done. I pray that God will send to us what we need to make us better servants for HIM, not what we want to further our own agenda. I just can't do another DG agenda. This decision is important to me and my family. I'll leave Shiloh before I or my family sit under another pastor and leadership that won't abide by the word of God. It is a mandate for me. I have to be able to look at my pastor and know immediately that he is annointed of God. I just don't have that feeling yet. Please pray for me.
Anon. 7/10/2008 9:19 am. I would remark that HB did a "good" job last night, but I think that the other candidates did a "better" job when we heard them. Will the others have additional preaching opportunities at Shiloh as well? How can we base our vote fairly when we hear one candidate more than the others?
Anon 7/10/2008 11:18 am. Rev. Charles IS your new pastor. The other candidates will just be names used to make the process look complete. You know the deal.
I attended the service last night and saw the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives. 5-6 people came forward for decisions, that's power. His message was to be filled with the Holy Spirit, which I believe gives us the power to be sucessful going forward. The preacher does not provide the power we need. The Holy Spirit has given us the power, we need to use it. Let's pray if he is the preferred vote getter that God will use his life as the powerful message. He has 3 beautiful children, and a wife who has been his high school sweetheart, with 10 years of marriage under their belts. I would love to have him "grow" at the Met, having been at his fathers church for the past 16 yrs. Again, if he does get the majority of votes, I hope we can unite with the majority and move forward, and not want to stay "in the wilderness". The committee may want him, but the members have the final say. It looked like more than 1,000 were excited last night!
Well Anon 11:18. It's unfortunate, but I think you're right. Shilite 1:29 confirms what I was feeling. I guess this really is all a show. He will have to "grow" with Shiloh. That's not what I'm looking for. DG "grew" with Shiloh and look at what happened. He does have a lovely family and seems like a very likeable person. But Shiloh is not the church to "grow" in. We (I) need help with my healing. I can't help Rev. Charles grow in ministry. I was hoping the next pastor would help us (me) grow in ministry and applying the word of God to my life. Does his dad's church have the same types of issues as we have here? Shilite 1:29 I disagree with you. I did not feel as you did regarding Rev. Charles. God bless you Shiloh in helping your new pastor to "GROW".
Make the process "look" complete? what does that mean? If they give us 3 names, the process is complete! We need the best candidate, and I have heard them all. I've been told by asking a committee member, not the W.W.W., that we will get the opportunity to view the sermons of the final 3, to jog our memories. Based on my memory, HB seems to have the best long-term future! But I reserve the right to use my vote as I see fit.
God has already provided the means for our healing, his name is Jesus. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, our comforter. If we depend on "man" to heal us, we will be disappointed time and time again. Our job is to heal each other with the aid of the Holy Spirit. Whom ever the Pastor is, I would not want to run to him and say, "heal me". He who began a good work in you will bring it to pass. Jesus called it "pruning", to grow more fruit, John 15. God works through our circumstances to reveal if we're trusting in the creator, or the creature. Man can't heal man, get to the creator. I'm using this to lean not to my own understanding. I was one who said if Pastor G ever left, I would go with him. God was jealous and showed me that I need to look to him, not any man! Praise God I have learned my lesson. If you are still needing a pastor to heal you, Jesus died in vain. I'm praying that the Holy Spirit will invade you heart and give you the healing you desire. We must study, pray, and fast to get closer to the source. It's all about Jesus. I'm a mere vessel.
Shilite July 10th 2:21pm. Making it "look" complete means you hear the church boss's preference preach at least 5 sermons.(2 Sunday services, 1 Wednesday). You heard the other candidates on 1 Sunday. You remember what you hear and see "live" several times, more than you remember what you have seen less of. Did I miss the names of the other candidates? We are still talking as if there was only one. A nice family does not "qualify" one to pastor Shiloh (DG had a nice family also). I bet they ALL have nice families.
Anon 2:01 You can goggle H.B. Charles name and get a feel for his father's church.
This is why we all have an opinion and the opportunity to vote July 30. Whether it is today or the 30th,my vote will be for HB. I was not as impressed with anyone else as I am with him. He new his sermon(he doesn't read like some others) which means to me he is extremely prepared. He knew scripture(other candidates didn't give as much) and he had the full attention of the crowd. Even DG never filled a Wednesday night service in that way. Most of you probably thought that DG was so anointed and look and what a con he turned out to be. Lean not on your own understanding but pray to GOD for HIS wisdom.
Also, the "church bosses" are not pushing HB on us. Shilites have been clamoring for this guy. people have been going to the search committee and others involved in this process telling them how excited they are about him. Don't blame the leadership, it is the congregation that has been pulling for HB hard!
Anon 11:18 AM: man looks at the outer appearance God looks at the heart. Only God knows the heart of these men. If you were so good at knowing who was anointed and who wasn't there is no way you would have been at Shiloh at all!
The true criteria for choosing a Pastor is not whether he moves your emotions or feelings.When one is seeking a new Church or a new Pastor,I qoute Dr.John MacAuthur Jr.,the most important characteristic is "How does he handle the WORD". True anointing is seen in a Pastor in how faithfully and rightfully he exposit's God's Word not in whether he reads or not reads his sermons.Some of the greatest preachers in America write out there entire sermons(John MacAuthur)for the purpose of being as accurate as possible to what the Holy Spirit revealed to them in their private Bible studies.I pray that Shiloh will choose not on appearence but on substance.If they get a Pastor that will teach them the truth and not what they want to hear,then you will see true life changes.I pray the best for them.
Pastor Rod allow me to clarify. I was in no way saying that whether someone reads or not means they should be a pastor or how good they are. Out of all the candidates, HB did the best job, in my opinion, of preaching the Word expositorily. Not many of the others did. Some of the others may have got the crowd going but when you where honest with yourself after service, how much did he point me to scripture?, what did I learn new or different from this sermon? and often times you can't answer any of those in the affirmative. I do however think it says alot about a pastors preparedness when he can effectively teach/preach by interacting and looking at his congregation the entire time instead of standing at the pulpit and reading his entire sermon, looking down at a piece of paper for 45 minutes! There is no perfect pastor, if so, name one. All we can do is ask God to reveal His choice. We can criticize these candidates but I would venture to say not many of us can do what they do. That is why we must pray; this position is a highly important one.
Ms J, I left Shiloh too and my whole family. I have been looking for another home since the outbreak. This month, I think I found a place a new home for my husband and I. I will never go back to Shiloh. dfsa
To Anon 7:58 - "There is no perfect pastor." You are correct. HOWEVER, the Bible says every pastor ought to live a life that is above reproach.
I am quite in agreement with Pastor Rod about pastors who write out their sermons and then read them. Some of the best sermons I've heard were read from the pulpit.
Handling the Word (and knowing how to do that) requires training, i.e., seminary training.
It is equally important for a pastor to LIVE a godly life, as well as care for the flock. And, in my opinion, the Shiloh congregation is in need of great care, whether or not the congregants and/or church leaders recognize their need.
Holding the office of pastor, especially in a church where there has been a clergy abuse scandal, is not just about being a good expositor of the Word. After Katrina, people were more concerned with getting their lives back together than hearing someone eloquently preach/teach. Many have been spiritually hurt at Shiloh. Many have left. These hurt people need to get their spiritual lives back. That's the job of the new pastor, whoever he might be.
As far as we know this man has LIVED a Godly life. He has been interviewed, background checked and had surprise visit on his own turf and asked about in his own neighborhood. We trust that the search committee has done it's done and will present us with people who are blameless..
Again, maybe this is just my take on things, but when I listen to any pastor, presenter, etc I prefer that they engage their audience by looking at them and interacting continuously with them and not reading. That is just something I like, and I know an equal number of great pastors that minister in that way and not by reading. That would be something I look for.
Anon 12:21 am, you are cautioned not to be in a rush about this man and not in a rush period concerning the process of installation. I am curious about why Charles is leaving his present church or trying to leave it. Is it just that he's tired of being a "boy" preacher in the church he grew up in or could it be something more. The last thing any church needs is a runaway preacher like Gilyard was. It may be difficult to impossible to get answers about him from within his church since it is ingrained in church people not to speak or let others speak negatively about their pastor. But you can be sure there are those in Mt. Sinai Missionary Baptist Church that know about any negative misstep he has made but I doubt if Shiloh could get it out of them. One reason is they don't want to sabotage him and two, they may not want to be seen as having something in their own heart against him that wants to keep the "good pastor" from soaring. It can be hard to get at the truth. As those of us who attended Shiloh know, this church thing can be a motley mess. I'll be glad when I can say as anon 4:15pm did that I have found a new church home but right now I'm still doing the weekly search. From the outside looking in, it does seem like a little older more mature person would be a better choice, preferably someone not in the throes of raising young children and that's just my opinion anon 12:21 am. Wish all of you the best. Interesting to see who the choice will be. Shiloh isn't on my candidate list, I'm on my way to another church this morning and in time and through prayer me and my girls will find a "home" again. God bless.
I am in no rush to install anyone. As a member of Shiloh, the vote is going on July 30 as planned unless something happens to stop it. I plan to vote because I won't be one of theose people who doesn't vote but then afterwards has all Kinds of negative things to say.
HB has his reasons for wanting to leave, but it has nothing to do with any scandal. I personally know people who have gone to his church in LA (a relative who is still in LA and another couple who now live here in Jax) and there is no scandal or anything like that following him.
Come on people, since when does God put an age limit on someone He wants to use! You Bible scholars! God can use whomever He wants; all he needs is a willing vessel, He will provide you with what you need to do the job! Did you forget about David, Joseph, Samuel? How do you know God hasn't been preparing HB since the age of 16 for 'such a time as this'!
So what he has 3 kids; that is why God has blessed him with a WIFE! He is not a single parent raising them alone. Hello! Preachers and their wives are known to have far more kids than that and that never stopped their ministries from going forth. Next!
Anon 3:52 pm Honestly, the way you stand up for him one wonders if he is paying you. Simply in general do you really feel that you can vouch for someone 100%. You must be awfully young or just...well, never mind. Human beings are capable of absolutely anything. Are you still slow learning that, even after what happened in your midst? Look at David if you need another reference! Let me tell you, I could be there right now waiting to vote like yourself but I COULDN'T stay there. And the HOLY SPIRIT persuaded me of that. And if you're wondering why I'm commenting about what you said, well, this is the "let's stop darrell gilyard together" blog. Perhaps Shiloh should start their own blog if they don't want others to make comments about it or, if that's the case don't even get on the web for that matter. It seemed to bother you anon I mean "Shilite".
Of course he's not paying me and since you're no longer there what diff does it make to you what we do?
You can't vouch for any person 100%. You can't vouvh for any pastor but that doesn't stop you from going to church, does it. You can't vouch for your husband(if you're married) but you did it any way. you can't vouch for the President but you plan to vote i hope. I have sense enought to know that but we still need a pastor. Do you think we should be pastorless until we can vouch for someone 100%, well then you and i both know we would never have one.
I trust GOD and that His Will shall be done despite what we think about it. I believe God always knew that one day DG would fall and Shiloh will need a pastor again. And He will provide for us.
David, by the way and unless I read my Bible wrong, but God himself said that he was 'A man after mine own heart'. God said it! He knows we will fail and disappoint, but common sense should tell you that we All will do that, so I guess God just won't get anything done in this world, right? God can even use our sins and mistakes to get His glory!
So since you are looking for a new church, you keep looking until you can vouch for someone 100% and good luck with it. There is not a one out there who has not fallen short of the glory Of God. Scripture tells you that!
By the way, we all are entitled to our opinions. Others opinions are totally irrelevent to my life and Shiloh will roll on regardless. Do you really think God cares what any of us really think about this; He has a will that must be done and a church that needs a man of God stationed there. Our opinions won't change God.
Thanks Shilite for directing them to HB's sermon from Sunday about forgiveness. What a message! It's clear that some people are still holding on to the past when we at Shiloh are ready to move on into the blessings God has in store for us.
It doesn't appear that anyone has any new info about DG. Each court date just continues to be passed. I don't know how many times that can be done until either you go to trial or some plea is made.
Thanks for getting things back on track...stopping DG together.
Part of stopping DG is to understand how DG was allowed to operate (and how he continues to operate) in the ministry.
One of the ways perpetrators continue on in the church is by preaching that appears to be biblical, but--upon a closer study--is really false teaching. Congregants are persuaded to think in certain ways that "protect" the bad behaviors of clergy.
One such common teaching is on "forgiveness" no matter what...no matter if a clergy perpetrator is fully held accountable...no matter if anyone else is protected from the perpetrator...no matter if the victims get any justice...no matter if those injured are ministered to...no matter if the perpetrator truly repents (but then, how does a member of the clergy repent of the evil of sexual abuse?). That "no matter what" kind of forgiveness is nowhere to be found in the Bible, yet pastors preach it like it came from God Himself. A careful study of forgiveness in the Bible yields a completely different truth.
What alerts me is this new pastoral candidate at Shiloh preached on "forgiveness." I imagine he also preached on God's "grace," too. Of course, following the same pattern, it is grace without the full truth, without accountability or without any healing of those injured (including any congregant whose spiritual lives were injured). I imagine this pastoral candidate did not preach on acceptability and ministering to the victims, which would have been much more biblical and in line with the teachings of Jesus than blind/glib forgiveness and grace.
I did not hear the sermon on forgiveness, but am relying on the words of Anon 7-14, 4:08, "It's clear that some people are still holding on to the past when we at Shiloh are ready to move on into the blessings God has in store for us." As for Gen. 50 and "forgiveness," there is so much to say, and there is not enough space here! Joseph forgave his brothers AFTER MANY YEARS, and AFTER HIS BROTHERS REALIZED THEIR "EVIL" AGAINST JOSEPH. And...note in Gen 50:21, Joseph "comforted them and spoke kindly to them" AFTER THEY FULLY REPENTED. Joseph's relationship to his brothers was restored only after they humbled themselves. When did DG or the elders of Shiloh humble themselves before DG's victims?
Forgiveness has nothing to do with "holding on to the past"--it is about holding a wrongdoer accountable for the hurts and brokenness he caused. DG has yet to be held accountable in a court of law. How can anyone speak of forgiveness? It's this kind of "Christian gobble-dee-goop" that I refer to--false teaching. How does Anon 4:08 know for certain God is going to bless Shiloh? The leaders did not do the right thing with DG in the first place. What has changed since DG left? Are the members of Shiloh that ignorant to think God will bless a church whose leaders are in error?
I would encourage anyone interested in forgiveness and healing to read the article, "When Forgiveness Is Not the Issue in Forgiveness: Religious Complicity in Abuse and Privatized Forgiveness," by Margaret F. Arms, published in the Journal of Religion & Abuse, Vol. 4(4) 2002, (avail. from haworthpress_dot_com, or in the book, Forgiveness and Abuse, edited by M. Fortune and J. Marshall.
This article draws from the work of Desmond Tutu and Carter Heyward in dealing with the issues of the South African parliament to grant forgiveness to members of Apartheid, and how that specifically relates to cases of clergy sexual abuse--not just with the perpetrators and victims of clergy sexual abuse, but also with the churches involved.
It is very relevant, and important that "former" members of Shiloh who left because of scandals involving DG have a say as to what happens there. They have a right to talk about what happened. This is not "gossip" as Shiloh's leaders are trying to tell you. It's healthy talk so that everyone can understand what really happened, and so that healing can begin.
What a sad day it will be if this pastoral candidate is voted in...but in all reality, I fully expect that those left at Shiloh will be duped into voting for him (while blaming it on "God's will"). It's just that kind of man church leaders like--someone who can "smoothtalk" the congregation into just about anything. That's exactly what they did to get DG on board in the first place. Members beware.
Members of Shiloh, God will not prevent you from exercising your free will in choosing the wrong man. He will still love you, but He will not forbid you from making another mistake. As these pastoral candidates are presented, look for the man who is concerned about ministering to the flock, not putting a bandaid (i.e., "just forgive") on the gashes that DG left behind. You can be sure God's man won't have the "charisma" DG had. It will take more than fancy words to bring healing to Shiloh.
I'm with Rod H - I'm wishing and praying the best for Shiloh.
Kay, if Shiloh's leaders can't understand your wanting to find another church, and think that your membership at Shiloh means nothing to them, then it is well you left. They apparently weren't your shepherds in the first place. One can only hope they will someday see the error of their ways. Your honest candor is appreciated, and I will be praying the Lord leads you to the right church. May He bless your endeavors to serve Him.
Are you suggesting we should stay pastorless for many years? You should refrain from making comments about HB sermon until you have heard it which you admitted you have not.
The reason it took Joseph many years was because he did not see his brothers for many years. But the interesting thing was despite that, GOD still had a plan for Joseph and it was taking place regardless of the evil that was done against him. God was still going to do His will despite what Joseph's brothers had done, hence "you meant it for evil, but GOD meant it for good. He brought me to this position so I could save many lives".Genesis 50:19-21
Your comment about forgiveness is incorrect Anon 1:27am. Forgiveness does not have to wait until the courts hold someone accountable, or the grudge has been repaid, etc. Is that how GOD forgives us? It is up to God to deal with DG as He sees fit. 'Vengence is mine says the Lord' and He can do a much better job at dealing with DG than any of us can. How do you know that DG has not asked for forgiveness and repented to GOD(although that will not take away any consequences from this)? We are not in his prayer life and relationship with GOD. How can you say that the leaders have not repented for their part in this mess? What makes you think that God can't or won't bless us to move forward with a great man of God and take Shiloh to great heights! Thank GOD! my life and future are not in the hands of man but the almighty GOD!
I don't know, maybe you have the mind of God and you know how he plans to move and what he plans to do. Can you say with all certainty that the next pastor is not God's will? None of what has happened has caught God by surprise. We have to pray for God's will just like you, and BELIEVE that He will guide and direct us to the right choice.
No one will be duped into voting for anyone. If anyone has a problem with the way things are being done, be man/woman enough to go to the church leaders and voice your opinion and thoughts! I have done it and was well received and got my questions answered.
Can any of you out there tells us with 100%certainty that you KNOW what GODS will and plan is for us?
You're absolutely right about forgiveness not having to wait. If a repentant sinner seeks forgiveness, then forgiveness is available. But true forgiveness always has to wait for a repentant heart. What took so long for Joseph to forgive his brothers did not rest with Joseph. It was waiting for Joseph's brothers to realize they were no longer in a position of power and authority over him. It was then they humbled themselves, proclaiming to Joseph they were his "servants." Then, and only then, was Joseph able to forgive them, which he did with great mercy. And thank God that Joseph was able to see all that God had planned, and that Joseph was elevated in the land of Egpyt so many would be saved. Only the Pharoah had more power and authority than Joseph.
Yes, God did work in the meantime. And I believe He is working now, doing a greater work than any of us can imagine.
But for Shiloh's congregation, the things to look for in a new leader are not the same qualities that DG had. DG did dupe the congregation. He was leading a life that was a lie--and there were leaders (not only at Shiloh, but in the SBC) who knew about it and did nothing. Apparently, from what we're able to ascertain there were many victims of DG at Shiloh, not to mention the many victims of DG prior to his coming to Shiloh. And beyond the victims, there are secondary victims, the family members of the victims, DG's family members, not to mention the spiritual abuse and confusion caused by what he did. That's a lot of hurt, and DG used Shiloh to hurt many. Hurt like that cannot be mended by a magic "forgiveness" wand. It will take many years to undo that kind of emotional and spiritual damage, that kind of evil.
As for God's will...God always desires for humans to choose a wise path, rather than the path of a fool (cf. Prov. 1:20; etc.). Joseph's brothers were foolish, and in the end, they paid homage to the one they had abused. Living a godly life is not about "sinning" (actually, doing evil--and there's a difference). It's about living a godly life in the open before everyone. If DG has confessed to God, then he also has to confess to the congregation at Shiloh--fully confess, not whitewash his actions. If the elders of Shiloh--who turned a blind eye to the many victims of DG who came to them with complaints--if they have confessed before God, then they need to confess to the congregation and ask to be forgiven. They have lost their authority as elders and ought to be removed. Then, and only then, can any at Shiloh forgive them. If they were truly living godly lives, they would be moved by the Holy Spirit to do that.
It behooves thinking individuals to seek wisdom in looking for a new leader. That's basically what I'm saying. Shiloh was apparently foolish to hire DG. Shiloh does't need to be made a fool again.
To God, the sheep are more important than shepherds. Read Ezekiel 34.
I'm sorry but there were so many crazy statements made that i have to keep responding. HB sermon had nothing to do with DG. He was preaching about Joseph.
If people need healing they need to go to THE HEALER. No pastor has the responsibilty to heal anyone; his job will be to preach the word of God and when you hear the word, pray to GOD and apply it to your life, you will be healed. Stop placing responsibilites on pastors that are truly meant for God himself.
Anon 10:28 am. I know that we have been praying for Gods spiritual wisdom and discernment in this situation; we have done it collectively as a church and many do it individually. I am believing that God will hear and answer us. We are most definitely not looking for another DG. The next pastor should be able to preach and teach expositorily but also have the moral standards and integrity to be a pastor. We have not overlooked that fact at all.
We will have 3 to choose from; they have been investigated and background checked. Anyone, with any kind of blip on the screen, did not make it to the final 3. We trust that we have been presented with 3 blameless(not perfect) candidates; they don't appear to have any sort of behaviors that were exhibited in DG or any other things that would disqualify them.
We ask that you pray for us. Have any of us always made the right decisions 100% of the time. that is why we lean on God. We are doing the best we can to choose God's man to move forward, we can't shut the doors to church because of past mistakes. God is still able to use us and get Glory!
But, don't we wish we could just, "hang him a little", to teach him a lesson, a story told about President Lincoln in the sermon on Joseph Sunday. I'm sensing we believe forgiveness/healing can only come when the sinner/perpetrator asks "us", the offended, for forgiveness. Joseph replied to his brothers who wronged him, "Am I in the place of God?" I believe he was speaking from a point of deep spiritual growth, which we have yet to understand. Jesus told the group to start stoning the woman "caught" in sin.... they dropped their stones. Doesn't say they forgave her. Doesn't say she asked for forgivness. What do we think? Did it matter to Jesus if the "offended" crowd forgave the woman? They had "issues" they needed to take to Jesus, not to the woman. Now we should understand why we "were" there when they crucified MY Lord! Oh, it makes me want to tremble, when we act like the religious leaders who said "give us Barrabas". No need to quote religious leaders, if they are not using the principles of Jesus. I've dropped my rock, healed by the power of the blood. "you meant it for bad, BUT GOD, meant it for good. God's "mint" is always bigger than Satan's "mint"! Lord, forgive us, when we want our vengance, instead of growing the spiritual fruit of long-suffering.
No one intends to put anyone at Shiloh on the defensive. That's not the intent here. No one expects the new pastor to "heal" anyone. However, a new pastor should be sensitive, not only to Shiloh "moving forward" but also to those who have been hurt. If one part of the body is wounded, then the whole body is affected.
I'm certain Shiloh's leaders are concerned about those DG hurt, and are working diligently to care for those who have been hurt, just as the Good Samaritan took care of the man who was robbed and beaten.
I aplogize if comments made were taken the wrong way.
May the Lord bless Shiloh and its endeavors to bring glory to Him.
July 17, 2008 10:28 AM It is so comforting to know that you are all-wise, all-knowing, and have the answers for Shiloh; "don't hire the pastor"; "fire the leaders"; bring the repentant rabble before the congregation to confess their trangressions. With you on the job maybe the Lord can take some time off!
To Anon 10:32 - regarding your comment, "HB sermon had nothing to do with DG. He was preaching about Joseph." Perhaps you should tell Anon 4:08 (7-14) that the sermon on forgiveness had nothing to do with DG. He stated, "…HB's sermon from Sunday about forgiveness. What a message! It's clear that some people [former members of Shiloh who left after DG scandal] are still holding on to the past…" Maybe you weren't listening to the sermon as well as Anon 4:08, or perhaps Anon 4:08 has come to his own conclusions.
Has anyone noted that neither DG or the last preacher we heard has had any academic credentials published on their resumes? I recognize the purpose of this blog is to stop DG but I am concerned as a member of Shiloh that if we do not examine closely the mechanism that has been put into place to facilitate this election, we may be doomed to repeat the same mistake. If we are to have three candidates to choose from, when are the others returning to Shiloh? Or are they? One thing that troubles me with DG is the question of who (in our church leadership) knew what and when? And are those same people manipulating this process by not allowing the others to return before we vote?
The problem with DG had nothing to do with his education. He was very versed in the Word and delivered it eloquently. The problem was with his heart. There is no way to verify what's in a man's heart. Allow God to move in this situation and stop playing God.
Inquiring about credentials is not playing God. Doctors have credentials, nurses have credentials, teachers have credentials, physical therapists have credentials, and lawyers have credentials. Ministry is both a calling and a profession. Don't you have credentials in your profession? It was an honest inquiry. How can we promote education to our youth, and young adults, while disregarding it for our ministers? Many churches will not even consider a minister without a college degree. Jesus said, "thou shall love the Lord thy God, with all thine heart, soul, strength, and with all thy MIND". Sorry if that offends you.
Anon 4:56p, I'm not offended at all. However, you took my comment out of context. My point was that although credentials are very important but they do not determine whether or not a man will be a good pastor. Our next pastor should have a heart for Jesus.....as well as credentials. For the record, one of our candidates has been a pastor for 16 years. How is that for credentials? There is alot to be said about job experience.
anon July 17, 2008 2:12 PM and anon July 17, 2008 4:56 PM Where did scripture specify "degree required?" What degree did D. L. Moody, one of the greatest evangelists of the 19th century hold? How about Charles Haddon Spurgeon who founded a college and whose sermons are still studied by modern preachers today? Pastoring is a calling. It is too bad that many men have entered into it as a vocation. A degree does not qualify one to be a pastor anymore than possessing a firearm qualifies one as an expert marksman. Jesus chose the most unlikely men to carry on His work on earth. If His choices were credential-based I doubt any of them would have qualified. God chooses His pastors (read Jeremiah 3:15). Any other way is based on the "traditions of men", not the Word of God.
How can one teach unless he himself has been taught? A seminary education is invaluable for a called man of God to rightly discern the Word of God. How can an ill-equipped man differentiate between Greek words with completely different meanings, but which share the same English translation? For example, there are 3 different Greek words translated "forgive" in English: aphiemi, charizomai, and apoluo. Each has a different meaning and application. I've heard many preachers confuse the meanings of the Greek words translated "forgive." How can you distinguish the meanings of words in the Bible without an education in Greek? That's just one small aspect of a seminary education. There is much more to learn, especially in today's complex society. I would be leary of a man who did not have proper credentials.
That is not to say someone without a seminary education isn't a good Christian. It is to say if a man is called to be a pastor, he should get some education to back up his calling. And if a congregation is so convinced of a man's calling, then the congregation ought to see to it (i.e., pay for) his seminary education. To quote Paul, who commissioned Timothy, "A bishop then must be blameless...not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil" (I Tim 3:2,6). The apostle Paul himself was an educated man.
And yet, I also know of seminary educated men who were guilty of the same things DG is accused. Credentials without a pure heart are worthless in the church.
Wow...this is an intersting blogsite. I thought that it was about Gilyard, but soon realized that it is a collection of thoughts and ideas, both positive and negative on Shiloh as a whole.
As we all know, Shiloh is a very large church (over 7000 members). With that large church comes MANY opinions about what should be done, who should do it, why Gilyard was allowed free rein to terrorize the church for fourteen years, whether or not the new candidate(s) will be effective, etc. We realize that no matter what is done at Shiloh, with Gilyard, or even with the Presidential election (as that has been mentioned here as well), NOT EVERYONE WILL BE HAPPY. You cannot please everyone, no matter how honorable (or dishonest), how noble (or tricky), or how Christ-centered (or self-motivated) your intentions may be. God's will WILL be done.
However, man DOES have to ALLOW God to work in their lives. He won't force himself onto us. As leaders, as members, as former members, and as on-lookers watching the process, we MUST stay prayerful, be vigilant, and DO (not talk about) what we can do to make sure that GOD is allowed free-reign over all of these situations. Pray for the leadership, pray for God's man, and yes- pray for Gilyard and for the families he has affected by his transgressions.
It is good for people to "vent" and express their feelings. With the advent of modern technology, we can do that anonomously, without fear of reprisals. So keep on "blogging", but after (or preferably before) you log off- pray, seek God's face...then will you hear from heaven.
There is no argument against education and training in the Ministry or any other field of endeavor.
The emphasis in the earlier post was on "degreed", not "trained". DG was "trained" but not "degreed". The candidate referred has seminary training but no "degree". The poster also likely has no knowledge of what the candidate has been doing to further his education over the years since he has been pastoring, or what his educational plans are for the future.
More books have been written on the Bible than any other subject. Bible Greek and Hebrew language "helps" are widely available to all who desire to do language and word studies. Exegesis of a text can be learned by anyone with the aptitude and desire to apply themselves. Consider the previous the examples of giants in the Pastorate who were not seminarians. Billy Graham's degree was in Anthropology yet he is considered the most effective evangelist of the modern age.
The first requirement for any pastor is that the heart must be right. On this issue there is no disagreement.
One of the concerns raised about Shiloh is the response (or lack thereof) of Shiloh's leaders to DG. Some feel they did not do enough to prevent him from harming people at Shiloh. One report was that the parents of at least one of the teens went to DG to complain about his behavior, then went to the church leadership and were basically turned away...and then they went to the police. The parents were apprently following Matthew 18:15-17. The elders should have sided with the victims, not the perpetrator. How is it that the secular police have more sense than the church leaders?
Have these elders been brought into account? Perhaps they just didn't understand their moral and biblical responsibility as leaders of a church. What has Shiloh done, i.e., policy changes, to assure congregants that if they come to the leaders with similar concerns they will be taken seriously? Or, are they waiting for the outcome of DG's trial--which could a few more years--to change the way they do things.
Perhaps this is why there is discord, why people have left Shiloh, why there is a distrust among congregants, why people are questioning the pastoral candidates.
It's very hard to trust church leaders again when there is a clergy sexual abuse scandal.
To Anonymous 9:14am- Yes, there are books that are available to help ANYONE. However, since Shiloh is such a large church and has many degreed members, I'm sure that they would like to know that their leader has taken the time necessary to hone his craft as they did for theirs. Anyone can read a book about how to do surgery, but would that be all that is necessary to allow that person to operate on you?
Also, if the pastor if not degreed, he should not expect to make a six-figure salary on day one. While I agree that education alone is not enough, a person should be paid based on his education and experience. Just because Shiloh is a mega-church, it is not an automatic that they should pay their leader(s) an exorbitant salary.
On the topic of other ministers returning to preach and the return of only one candidate, there is often much more to a story than what meets the eye. Who's to say that these other candidates are still interested in the position, have the time in their schedules to make a return visit, or are even still eligible for the post? If the process is as rigorous as previously mentioned on this site, they may have fallen short of the necessary requiremtns. If the leadership is doing their due diligence THIS TIME, who knows what they may have found out about any of the candidates?
Tiffany, it seems as though this site is no longer serving the purpose for which it was created. Don't you think enough damage has been done here? Shut it Down!!!!
Tiffany do not shut this site down,it's healthy to discuss various matters not only pertaining to DG but also other topics involving theology,pastor qualifications,the church,etc.I am personnaly enjoying these discussion.Believe me we are going too have ample opportunity to discus Darrell.
All this blog has done is given carnal-minded people something to gossip about. I'm sure some of you do enjoy reading mess. That's exactly what this is....mess!!!
This site isn't about preventing abuse in the Church. It's about what's going on at Shiloh. While all of you self-righteous hypocrites are gossiping about what you think and what you have heard is going on at Shiloh....I'm sure there are quite a few things you can be working on to strengthen YOUR walk with Christ. Instead og blogging...read your Bible.....talk to your children...read a book!!! Get a life!!!
C.H. Spurgeon started The Pastor's College in 1856 to educate preachers. His college aimed to train preachers, rather than scholars. The college held to a doctrine of grace and the Orthodox faith tradition. Spurgeon had 300 students in the Baptist denomination. He had a 12,000 book (personal) library and was an avid reader. Spurgeon also knew Hebrew and Greek.
Moody started a school to EDUCATE people/preachers. The D.L. Moody Bible Institute in Chicago is yet functioning quite well today. Both Spurgeon and Moody clearly endorsed the need for Ministerial training, and provided for its continuance.
If you agree that Spurgeon and Moody are noteworthy, perhaps you'll agree that they are worth STUDYING. Before you condemn seminaries, see what they have to offer.
In today's world, you need education. My inquiry was about a degree in ANYTHING, not specifically THEOLOGY. As a matter of fact, a Bachelor's degree IS a pre-requisite to a Master of Divinity, the basic ministry degree. Pastoring is more than just preaching.
We have a psychiatrist/trustee/deacon on staff to help us with counseling. That is an acknowledgemnet by this church of the need for formal training in counseling.
Should a pastor have formal training in counseling? Nevermind.
There is Bereavement Care and counseling: marriage and family counseling; crisis intervention; care of the dying and their families; sick visitation; church administration; budgeting-----so many demands on a preacher's time.
Elijah was called the 'Dean of the school of the prophets'. The Apostle Paul studied under the tutelage of Gamaliel. He was used of God as apostle to the Gentiles specifically because he was Multi-lingual (educated).
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God; a workman that needeth not be ashamed, righty dividing the word of truth."
Jesus did not call Peter, James, and John in the 21st century. This IS the 21st century. Since the Wright Brothers, we have studied Aviation. Since Henry Ford, we have studied the automobile. Since Charles Drew, since Christian Bernard----you get the point.
Anon 2:55 If people don't talk about this "mess" (as you say it) this kind of thing will continue to go on in churches. Silence is a vehicle used by perpetrators. People should be aware of church issues and talk about them. I'm sorry if it causes you shame in the process or feels like your dirty laundry is hanging out. This site has been a teaching tool for many as to the operations of churches and how widespread clergy abuse is.
Anon 7/18/2008 11:40 am. If 3 applicants qualify as finalists, then 3 applicants meet the qualifications. Out of 156 resumes, there can't be only one preacher with a clean background. The others are not coming because nobody's trying to persuade you to vote for them. How can anyone be elected as our pastor, who can't even come and speak before us a second time? If the other 2 candidates were sexual predators, or had a criminal background, why would they be finalists?
When there is clergy sexual abuse, there is always a "mess."
Traditionally and historically, the way church leaders have handled the "mess" is to simply cover it up, move the pastor on to another church without fully holding him accountable, silence the victims through whatever means they can, including "guilt-tripping" the victims into "forgiving" the pastor, or even worse, forcing the victim to ask the pastor and congregation to forgive her. Usually, the victim and her family are no longer welcome at the church. She is ostracized.
It's a "glossing over" that leaves many in a spiritual quandary-like quagmire.
This case involving Shiloh and DG is important for at least a couple of reasons: (1) the police were called in and arrested DG so there can be a fair trial; (2) because of the courage of Tiffany, it has been brought out that many women have allegedly been previously victimized by DG as well as the teens. Apprently women have been complaining about DG for many years, but church officials have simply done what they usually do. IF he is found guilty in a court of law, then this case will prove that the "solutions" to all of the previous allegations against him (i.e., allowing him to just move on to another congregation without real accountability) did not work. Perhaps it will send a message to church officials who seem to be very reluctant to understand the truth about clergy sexual abuse. Go to StopBaptistPredators.org for more information about the SBC's recent decisions to have a "hands off" policy regarding clergy sexual abuse cases as one example.
Tiffany, this blog is especially important because it allows folks to talk openly about how clergy abuse has affected them, how they feel about following church leaders who are so quickly trying to "move on" as if everything has been taken care of, and "all is well."
The truth is, all is not well at Shiloh. Several members have left, not because they moved away, or for some other happy reason. They've left because of unbelievable events that took place at "their" church, and the church leaders seem to be trying to pretend it's no big deal. What happened is a big deal. And those who have left should be important to the church leaders.
The questions of credibility of the pastoral candidates are valid. I'm sure the Search Committee is doing the best they can, but they need to realize the decisions of the "church bosses" will especially come under intense scrutiny by congregants--which is good.
You call us self righteous hypocrites? Since you are so offended by this blog, what are YOU doing here? The World Wide Web is just that, WIDE. There are plenty of other sites you can explore. Or, maybe you should take your own advise and go read YOUR bible, talk to YOUR child, read a book and stop wasting YOUR time by blogging on this site!
The problem with Anon 2:55 is that he hasn't been reading this blog with understanding--he's been reacting to it.
Many church leaders where clergy sexual abuse happens do the same. THEY decide that church members--and especially the victims--ought to remain SILENT about the mess they've created (by not properly holding the pastor perpetrator accountable). They label people "gossipers" who are merely trying to understand how a church pastor could do such terrible things in their church.
Name calling won't stop people from talking about what happened. PRAISE GOD for this technology that allows people from all over the world to discuss what happened at Shiloh. It's about time people understand the truth about clergy sexual abuse so that pastor perpetrators in the church are stopped.
And hence, this entire blog--everything about Shiloh, DG, and even First Timothy--is contributing to stopping DG...and we're doing it together.
I'm a member and I have asked for HB to return and so have many others. We sold so many of his CDs and tapes of all of his sermons while here. That spoke volumes. The others were good but something was missing. Like someone quoted earlier, NOT ALL will be happy about who is selected. I have asked God who I should vote for. The others pastors sermons will play on the big screen to recall their sermon. Its not that hard to decide when being led by the Spirit.
DG has his day coming. I feel for his wife. She has got to be hurting as well as her parents. DG has not changed, he is still bragging baout its no big deal about what is being said. I guess he feels Hank Cox is God over the legal system. Cox is goo but God is in charge of Cox, regardless of what it looks like. I know the families involved and at first they did not want to say anything against DG but after the evidence presented itself clear and factual, there were no other choice but to expose DG's wrong doings. Other families were afraid to come forward, fearing for the loss of their home, income and daughters reputation. He should not be let off but only God knows the outcome.
The other 2 were good but something was missing. I don't want to use names in the event that I am wrong about who the other 2 will be. One was good but I did not feel he preached expositorily; the 2nd in my opinion had way too many characteristics that i don't want to see my pastor have(I'll leave it at that). Out of the choices we have been given I believe HB is the best choice.
I see that may people are upset that the other candidates may not return before the 30th. All we are basically judging at this point are the preaching abilities. the search committees and others, are the ones who have done the hard work, the interviews and asked the hard questions. Based on these they have presented us with what they feel is best. So all you can vote on is the preaching style of eachwhich you will get to see again before voting
Can anyone say why his wife will choose to stay married to a man like that? I can't imagine having to live with a man that acts like that. It makes me wonder about her mental state; not to say she is crazy, but maybe so emotionally abused over the years she feels she can't get out. Or is she one oth those wives that feels that "no matter what" I have to stay with him because he's my husband and it's what God would want. Sometimes the church can beat women over the head and make them feel they can't leave no matter how bad it gets.
Any pastors out there? It seems to me if this were a teacher, or principal, coach, neighbor, etc we all would be in an outrage over DG behavior. but since he is a pastor it's almost as if no one wants to really condemn him. This has not only been seen at Shiloh but other well known cases at other churches. Why is this?
I don't know about anyone else, but I do feel outrage about this case and other cases where Pastors have sinned mightly, yet continue to preach, and people have allowed it to happen. Churches are putting up with it, and it's a disgrace to the body of Christ! I've read alot on this blog about leaving it in Gods hands and letting Gods will be done. We all want God's will, but here are His requirements:
2 Chronicles 7:14
"If My people, who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, THEN I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and Heal their land".
First, you have to truly belong to Him through repentance, faith, and a new birth lead by the Holy Spririt. We can't continue to live the same old way. It's not just saying "I'm sorry, God", but Godly repentance requires turning away from the sin. As we grow, we should be sinning less.
Second, He said we need to Humble ourselves before Him - get rid of pride in our lives.
Third, Pray
Fourth, Earnestly seek Him
Fifth, Turn from their wicked ways. (This is self explanatory)
Sixth, THEN, we will hear from Him
My point is, I'm sure people were praying back in 1993 or 1994. DG was hired inspite of the prayers. We now know that the leadership at Shiloh was faulty. If they had followed the Lord's instructions, they wouldn't be in this mess today. They would have had enough discernment to know that he should not be the Pastor.
God said His people perish due to lack of knowledge. When I attended Shiloh, something that I feel wasn't being taught was repentance. It was mostly about what God would do for us, but not much about true repentance. Now, I know why. The Pastor hadn't repented. If the leadership of Shiloh does not have their hearts right with God, Lord help Shiloh again! Let's pray they do!!
I'm with you, Ms. J! The leadership of Shiloh needs to get their hearts right before they ask God for a new pastor. Repent is a word I haven't heard spoken from a pulpit in a long time either. Used to be a common word in my dad's Baptist church.
If Shiloh's leaders have repented, they need to express that to the congregation; not just with words, but with their actions. By their fruits we will know.
Personally, I don't feel that HB is the right man for the job. If he were, then there wouldn't be such a commotion. He's obviously the choice of the "church bosses" and the Search Committee, but I don't feel he's God's choice. Just about anyone could preach an expository sermon. That doesn't mean he's necessarily right for the job.
If he were God's choice, his selection would be going a lot smoother. And if he's voted in, I don't feel his term as pastor of Shiloh will be long term. He doesn't seem to understand the issue of clergy sexual abuse at all--if he did he would never have given a sermon on "forgiveness" (and used Gen. 50 as his text!). That was so insensitive and uncaring of those who were hurt by DG. His choice to do a sermon on forgiveness gives me all the more reason to believe HB is NOT God's choice to bring Shiloh to where it needs to go. He is in denial of the events that have taken place, and seems to be encouraging the congregation to just deny what happened.
I need to ask, have any of the church leaders who erred by not checking out DG's past before calling him to Shiloh, or taking the allegations against DG seriously repented? Does anyone know for certain that they have repented? If they have, then it would sure help to know because right now their credibility is not what it used to be.
Anon 1:47am: Are you kidding me! Do you think that because HB preached about forgiveness, the only thing he could possibly be talking about was DG. I was there and he never said any of that stuff he was coming from Genesis and preaching about Joseph not DG. Isn't forgiveness for all of us in all areas of our lives; marriages, parents/children, why are you thinking so narrowly as to think that the only thing that forgiveness applies to is DG and he had to be talking about him.
I don't want to be late for work, I'll be back! But do you think that if God is involved that means thing s have to run smoothly. You need to go back and read your Bible and look at the problems that people who were chosen by God had to go thru while God was using them. That is so not Biblical!
Anon 7:28 - It's a timing thing... and follows the patterns of many churches where a clergy sexual abuse scandal has taken place; where church leaders try to deny the seriousness of what happened, minimize the real damage that occurred (spiritual and otherwise), and keep people ignorant of the events that happened. This is called collusion.
Let me explain again. When a clergy abuse scandal happens in a church, the church leaders will typically try to cover up what happened, or if they can't, then they will let the paster perpetrator go, basically ostracize the victim(s), and then try to do the best "damage control" they can. The church leaders will order people to "not gossip" about what happened, and just keep silent!
Part of "damage control" often times includes sermons on "forgiveness" and "grace," especially by outside preachers--making it appear this is just a "coincidental" message from God.
So, it's the timing and pattern here that gives me suspicion. That's all.
Of course, if you don't understand clergy sexual abuse, then you probably can't see the pattern or the relevance of the timing.
As for things going smoothly, my experience in the Christian life has been that when God is involved, not only do things go smoothly, but many are blessed.
The Lord wants us to trust in Him, not in our own devices.
I've also learned that to see God's involvement takes great patience. It's hard to wait for the Lord, but I've learned that His timing is better than mine. Hurrying things along usually backfires.
It is also interesting that you are sidestepping my question as to whether the erring church leaders at Shiloh have repented or not.
I personally do not attend Shiloh at this time, and I still want to know. We are all members of the church universal, and Shiloh's leaders represent my Lord as much as I do.
Aren't there thinking members and attenders of Shiloh who want to know if their church leaders are right with God? If not, then the congregation of Shiloh is at risk for another scandal.
Have the church leaders "humbled themselves"? Have they repented for getting Shiloh into the "mess" by not holding DG accountable for his actions prior to his arrest?
If the church leaders have repented, then shouldn't they convince others that they have in order to restore the trust of the people?
If they haven't repented, then any attempts by them to bless Shiloh with a new pastor at this time will fall short of God's full blessings.
I disagree that when God is involved things always go smoothly. Often times that is when you get the most opposition. i think of great men in the BIble and they all faced opposition/problems at one time or another in their ministries. The greatest of all was Jesus himself; he surely was chosen by God and was the ONLY ONE qualified for the job but things sure didn't go smoothly for HIM although they did go according to plan.
I believe that the leaders have repented and are trying to do a much better job this time around. But honestly, the only person to know if someone has truly repented is the Lord himself. I know that they are not ignoring things like they did with DG; if anything was inappropriate or caused concern about a candidate, they were not chosen to make the final voting process.
I, along with MANY, others have been praying for God to make our choice plain and clear so that there is no doubt and I believe he is doing just that.
Anon 6:39 - Are you saying Jesus faced opposition of which he had no control? The example of Jesus proves that waiting for God's clear direction and timing work.
Jesus' opposition didn't come from the masses, the people in the pews. Interestingly, His opposition came from the Pharisees--the religious leaders. The people were, for the most part, with Him in his earthly ministry. To that end, His ministry did go smoothly. He "had a handle" on the opposition of the religious leaders which perplexed them and made them angry toward Him, ultimately leading to His death and resurrection. He knew exactly what He was doing in trusting His Father. Jesus didn't try to circumvent God's authority over Him. He could have tried to hurry the Kingship process when Satan tempted Him, but He chose to wait for His Father's direction. He was without sin. He and the Father were (and still are today) one.
Anon 6:39 - It gives me a little more assurance that you THINK the elders have repented, and that you KNOW they are trying to do a better job this time around. Did they make a public statement to that end? If they have, then please accept my apologies for my lack of knowledge.
This is a credibility issue with the Shiloh leaders which seems to be seeping in and out of this blog; hence, my inquiry as to their condition of heart.
If I repented of a sin that I committed 2 weeks ago would you automatically believe me since i did it publicly; would you know the condition of my heart? You will probably say you don't know me , well you don't know them either. How many times have we gone to God and asked for forgiveness and "repented" and often times gone right back and done the same thing again. Don't lie and say you never have! That is why I am praying to God who i know I can trust above all others. There is not a man on this earth that you can put your complete trust in, the Bible tells us that, that's why we must call on Him.
If you are so convinced that our candidates are the wrong choice, and God is not directing us, PROVE IT with SOUND DOCTRINE!
I believe that if the leaders have repented they should say so in front of the congregation that they were wrong and made TERRIBLE, hurtful mistakes. They do owe an apology to congregants of Shiloh and I would think they would want to humble themselves and purge their hearts of their wrongs. My heart and soul still hurts when I think of how they put the flock at risk. They let Darrell Gilyard squeak by and continue his evil laciviousness for years and they knew about it. It took so-called "worldly" police officers to do what "spiritual" (there's a joke) people should have done. They should have reported him themselves. Does anyone else feel this way? Did DG have something on you leaders? You were stuck couldn't run for help, to the detriment of Gilyard's victims. Do you think this is not a big deal??? This is a big deal with God, watch. Until these many individual leaders come forward publicly with a contrite heart-Shiloh still precarious.. I know there are many there who are prideful and that's the problem.
While some self-appointed "heart monitors" are so busy trying to get others to repent and confess you might want to take a look at you own heart and your own advice. Your hearts seem to be filled with a lot of bitterness and anger towards the Shiloh "leaders". Do you know who they are? Do you know just who was involved in the hiring or any of the "cover-ups" you write so often about? Do you know anything other than what you "heard?". John 8:7 ...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone...
Anon 9:17 - If you are going right back at doing the same thing again for which you "repented," then you never repented in the first place. Repentance is "turning away" from sin, not returning to the sin again and again!
Anything short of a public repentance by the leaders of Shiloh is not repentance. They have a fiduciary duty to protect the congregation--i.e., all the people of Shiloh Baptist, including all the women and children. They obviously didn't do that.
The Shiloh leaders are not under the same mandates as lay people. They are to be "above reproach." Do you want Scripture? Then read what has been previously referenced on this blog many, many times. I'm tired of seeing the same verses repeated over and over.
If Shiloh's leaders are so "human" as to continue to live in sin, then they should never have been appointed as elders.
I suppose I can surmise by the latest responses, Shiloh's leaders have not repented publicly.
That would explain why you and others are trying to side step the issues.
I agree with Anon 9:19. This is a very big deal, one the leaders at Shiloh dare not disregard. God is bigger than your pride, and is not to be mocked.
DG's problems didn't start at Shiloh. There were many in the Southern Baptist Convention--men previously named on this blog site--who knew DG was not a man of God because of the way he was "handling" women at the Bible college, and in several churches before coming to Shiloh.
I am calling on the leaders of Shiloh Baptist, along with the leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention to humble themselves, learn about clergy sexual abuse, and repent of their indifference to the suffering of the victims and their families. Why? Because if they don't repent, God Himself will intervene. It makes me shudder to think of the consequences that will come if our church leaders do not repent publicly.
I am reminded of a controversial sermon I read in high school by Jonathan Edwards: "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God." Jonathan Edwards was speaking to normal lay folk. Just think how angry God will become if the church leaders do not repent.
Anon 11:40 - No, there is no bitterness or anger...only a desire to see errant leaders held accountable. There is nothing wrong that. The apostle Paul commands that church elders be held to account for their actions. You seriously aren't suggesting we abandon Paul's mandates? Oh, and, again, just in case you don't know, Paul's mandates concerning church leaders come from the Bible. The verses are I Tim 5:19,20. Oh, and just in case you try to suggest that there aren't any "witnesses" ("credible" or otherwise), then try to explain how no one in the congregation has heard a public confession of the elders' error(s) in dealing with DG through the years. It seems there are plenty of witnesses to the fact that Shiloh's leaders have simply had a lapse of judgment, care and concern for any of the victims in this situation.
And that being the case, there is a lack of trust of the elders in choosing a new pastor to lead Shiloh. That's all. How is it that anyone can really trust men who are so proud they can't publicly confess to the congregation their error? If they did, then--and only then--could they receive any grace and forgiveness from the congregation, and a restored trust in their leadership.
How can you guarantee that anyone is right with God? We know what we can see with our limited vision but God alone knows the heart. Are you telling me that you can tell every person that is right with God and every person who is not. Don't be deceived! Shiloh is in the spotlight right now because of all that has been exposed, but do you think we are the only ones? This kind of stuff is going on in many churches in this city, probably in your church. I know many pastors leading churches with women on the side, children on the side, taking money, etc. and scores of us are sitting in the pews saying our amens! Why don't they know, why can't they see all and tell all like you can? Again only God knows the true heart of a person! many a person has been fooled by people they thought they knew so well, but people can fool you, that's why you trust God! I can't say that enough!!
I am not looking at our leadership with a microscope trying to find everything wrong before I pray to God for a new pastor. Doesn't scripture tell you us to pull the planks out of our own eye before we go worrying about the speck in someone else. Should we sit on our hands and say, until every single person in this church is satisfied that everyone has repented and right with God we just won't do anything. Well you know that is impossible just from this blog. No way you can satisfy everyone.
I personally called the leadership and asked for a meeting concerning these problems. they met with me swiftly and allowed me to ask all the questions I wanted. I feel they answered honestly and didn't make excuses; a few told me directly that they had to repent to God. They also had various people there who were able to cover things that they were trying to get things right and back on track and the changes that would be made. Now, out of 7,000 give or take members, do you know only 20 or see people have requested to talk to the leadership and ask questions to hold them accountable. Yet, so many people have so much to say. If you are so concerned shy not ask to meet with them, they are there to serve the church in any capacity. So I personally don't want to hear all these gripes if on 20 people are willing to make a stand!
I'm tired of hearing you say over and over, how can you trust man? You can't and scripture tells you that; who can know the depths of wickedness in the heart? You can't even vouch for yourself what you will and won't do. Again my eyes are not on man, my eyes are on God! He is the ONLY ONE who will not fail you! That's why people get all crazy when pastors and the like get caught in junk like it can't possibly happen to them. We ALL are guilty of it; know matter how good you try to be, WE ALL come short of the glory of God. After all, that's why we have Jesus!
Anon 12:12 - You say you "know many pastors leading churches with women on the side, children on the side, taking money..." and you haven't done anything about it?
What kind of Christian are you to stand idly by? Don't you know what the Lord Jesus requires of believers when they encounter frauds in the ministry? Are you so blind?
This isn't about trying to take the speck out of someone else's eye. That verse is reserved for people on the same plane...i.e., not lay people with more powerful church leaders. Church leaders have a greater responsibility, and thus are to be scrutinized. The issues here are about holding men who are supposed to be "above reproach" accountable.
Apparently, your way of holding these wolves in sheep's clothing accountable is to stand by and watch. I suppose you'd do the same if the victims were your wife or your daughters. God help them.
What a shame that you had to make an appointment to speak to Shiloh's leaders about the errors they made in regard to DG. I bet you think you're pretty "special" for them to give you audience.
Giving private individuals an audience is not what the apostle Paul requires. Paul says Shiloh's leaders should stand before the congregation and confess, not hide in the church office like cowards.
Again, you are trying to circumvent the real issues by accusing those on this blog with real questions and concerns.
I'm pretty satisfied that Shiloh Baptist is not a church in compliance with the Word of God. The leaders are hiding from the truth, and lack concern and care for its members.
Anon 12:30 - Not everyone is guilty of sexually assaulting others! And if you are guilty of sexually assaulting others, and especially if you are using your position of power and authority over others to do that, I pray you get caught! Each of the states has a place for sex offenders: jail.
Even if everyone else does it, that doesn't give you the right to do it. The Bible teaches that sexual immorality is detestable in God's eyes. It is evil.
You keep skirting around my question. You have convinced me that you know who to trust and who not to trust and that you have the mind of God. Are you able to tell me soundly that when we vote, the next pastor is definitely not of God. Can you tell me soundly that God has ignored all our prayers and is not involved in this process whatsoever? Can you tell me that none of the candidates are 1 Timothy chapter 3 men. Can you tell me definitely that God has not prepared the next pastor for such a time as this? Can you tell me definitely that the next pastor was not called by God for this position(you would have to know that pastor's prayer life, his relationship to God and what God has told him to do)? Can you PROVE God is nowhere in this?
Please! If I know and I don't go to these churches, surely they know! Am i supposed to go church to church telling them about their pastors dirty deeds; the most I will get is a dirty look and dismissed. Besides if I know, their wives know so why don't they pull their husbands in or report them to the leadership.
You seemed to have known about Shiloh, why didn't you report it and pull the veil off sooner?
Did I say everyone does it? No, I did not! I said it happens in many churches today, not only in this city but across the world(as evidenced by the news). That is not being arrogant, it's just telling the truth.
I just thought since you are able to tell who is right with God and who isn't, that you would know that.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. As believers, we should trust and obey the Lord; what He tells us to do in his Word.
Is it that difficult for you to understand that Shiloh's leaders have apparently not repented publicly--something that the Lord through the apostle Paul requires?
Is it so hard for you to understand that many people have been hurt by the actions of Shiloh's leaders (and the actions of certain Southern Baptist leaders)?
Have you absolutely no compassion for the two teens (and apparently the many women) who were victimized?
Do you honestly believe God will bless men who live like unbelievers? It might help you to read I Thessalonians 4:1-8:
"Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because THE LORD IS THE AVENGER of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us the Holy Spirit."
The Lord Jesus Himself declares in Matthew 18, "Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!" (v. 7). He also says, "...it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea" (v. 6).
DG and Shiloh's leaders have made God angry. What makes you think God will bless Shiloh's carnal efforts to acquire a new pastor?
Anon 1:15 - your arrogance comes from being too proud to do anything about it.
And yes, you are right. I'm glad to see that you acknowledge that clergy sexual abuse is rampant in churches. Some who work with victims of clergy sexual abuse, have stated it is at epidemic proportions in our churches and religious institutions.
And the Southern Baptist Convention has just taken a "hands off" policy in regard to clergy sexual abuse. An SBC church is not a safe place for women and children these days.
Just a couple of quick points of clarification: 1. The leaders who hired DG are no longer the "church leaders". DG was at Shiloh for over 14 years. In that time, many of the people who hired him have gone on to glory or no longer hold major leadership positions. Since the current leaders had nothing to do with hiring him, they have no need to offer a "public apology".
2. Shiloh is not a part of the SBC. Therefore, the leaders and censorship of that group have no bearing on Shiloh.
3. Whether you guys realize this or not, one of the main "voices" here is DG himself. Anyone who's sat under his "leadership" for some time should be able to recognize his words-they haven't changed.
So, I have a message for you Darrell- You do know that when this first came to light, you had a chance to humble yourself and to answer to those whom you served. You chose not to. You chose to remain arrogant and to believe that you were above the law and answered to no man. Had you gone the correct route, and been innocent, I truly believe that the church would have stuck by you. Since however, ARROGANCE and PRIDE direct your ways rather than any of the fruit of the spirit, you are now in your current predicament. Darrell- you DO have to answer to man. We have little things called laws and a bigger concept called morals that are applicable to even you. Not to mention God's word- if you truly believed it you would be AFRAID to be as arrogant as you are. If you don't get your punishment on earth (since it look like you may skip real jail time and just get a slap on the hand), I fear for your final reception.
It is very insulting to me that you feel everybody at Shiloh is carnal, has no relationship with God, doesn't pray, doesn't trust God. We are not heathens just doing our own thing and wanting to call ourselves a church.
I don't know of anyone who KNEW about anything going on with these 2 teens. There was knowledge of being involved with other women but you couldn't prove most of it. He of course would categorically deny it and the women often times were married themselves so they weren't about to come forward and be honest for fear of what would happen to there families.
I would never know about someone hurting children in any capacity, whether they are a pastor or not, and not do anything about it. It breaks my heart when I hear of any child being abused in any way. We did not know about this until it hit the news. Adultery, although morally wrong and against God, is not a crime punishable by law. When you call yourself turning someone in to leadership it can't just be your word against theirs(esp when both parties deny it as above), you have to have proof. Who has time to follow these men around all day to get surveillance.
And like I thought, you CAN'T tell me that what we have been praying for in a pastor, God is not in the midst of. Every member of Shiloh is not carnal minded and to say that we are shows your arrogance! You can't tell me that God has not chosen the next pastor and sent him to us; to do so would be leaning on your own understanding. God tells us in his word that His ways are not our ways, His thoughts much higher than ours. Maybe, just maybe, this whole thing was His plan to expose DG, get him out of there so that He could station the right man of God there. When you believe and trust God, you know that nothing is just a coincidence, God is in control of it all, even when it doesn't go by our textbook thinking because you can't put God in a box concerning how he will answer prayer.
Anon 8:41 - I believe Anon 1:26 a.m. was referring to Shiloh's LEADERS being carnal because of their unrepentance, not the entire congregation.
The report is that the family of at least one of the teens went to DG, then to Shiloh's leadership before they went to the police. So how can you say know one KNEW of what DG was doing with the teens? The leadership knew, and did nothing to help the teen. Why, if the leadership was acting in accord with biblical mandates, did they not immediately take action?
And why, after many years of knowledge of "adultery" with the pastor was there no action taken? Since when is "adultery" okay for a pastor? And yes, it would have been prudent to do surveillence on the pastor to see if the allegations were true or not. Or were the leaders afraid of what they might find out if they did surveillance?
Do you need a secular law to tell you right from wrong? -- and perhaps the church in this country does -- but then I suppose the Christians would complain that their rights were being taken away. What about the rights of the victims of clergy sexual abuse? Don't all people have the right to attend church without being preyed upon?
And who is declaring that DG was committing "adultery" with women at Shiloh? This declaration speaks only to your ignorance of clergy sexual abuse.
There seems to be a lack of understanding with some in regard to leadership and laymanship. The sheep are not the shepherds. The shepherds have a fiduciary duty over the sheep, which gives the shepherds greater power and authority...and responsibility.
anon 7/21 12:42 AM you said "I'm pretty satisfied that Shiloh Baptist is not a church in compliance with the Word of God."
How do you define a church that is "in compliance?" Once you've defined "in compliance" what church do you know for sure meet the requirement(s)? If we can agree that the local church is a body of "born again believers" consider this: Is the pastor or all the members perfect in their observation of all things scriptural? Does your perfect church emphasize Christ or have the affections and honor due Jesus Christ been displaced upon the pastor/preacher. When you start to treat the pastor like he is a god don't be surprised when he starts to act that way.
Be careful in your condemnation of God's Church lest you put yourself in God's place in judging his church and his people. Jesus has already taken care of that in His letters to the seven churches in Revelation. He doesn't need your (our) help.
I didn't take it that Anon 12:42 was condemning Shiloh. He was speaking about the leaders of Shiloh not coming forward to the congregation. It was not a condemnation of the church.
Thank you for the reminder that Jesus (through the apostle John) in Revelation has already admonished churches. The admonition to modern-day churches is to strive to not be like the churches of Revelation. Those churches, even with their good points, failed in some capacity at following God's mandates for the church.
Of course, the word "strive" is the operative word. Is there an intent to follow the Word of God (not just teach the Word). From my understanding of reading the Bible, Christians ought to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
There is a biblical heirarchy in the church: Jesus is the head, then come the "bishops" (elders), then deacons, then the lay people. The apostle Paul is the one who established the heirarchy, not me (I Tim 3). The very word "pastor" means to shepherd. A shepherd is in a position of authority over the sheep.
No one should ever treat any pastor like a god. That would be idolatry. We are to worship God alone.
Having said that, the apostle Paul tells lay people to treat good elders with the respect due them (I Thess 5:12,13).
As for Christ, the head of the universal Church, I profess, along with Paul, "He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen" (I Tim 6:15,16).
anon July 21 1:02 AM If you don't go to that church you don't know. Many of the members didn't know although they may have heard rumors. Rumors which are denied by all parties involved don't amount to credible evidence. You should carefully re-read anon July 21 2008 8:41 AM who has a much better understanding than you do of how accusations and proof against a popular pastor works--not just in Shiloh--but in churches everywhere.
Here is how it goes:
When asked to confirm what they told someone else in confidence (who breached that confidence) victims deny or refuse (for whatever reason: fear of ostracism, marital status, trauma or other) to face the pastor and repeat the accusations with witnesses present. When confronted without the victim present the pastor denies and accuses the inquiring leaders of all kinds of stuff; not trusting him; having a personal vendetta against him; etc. He then starts a whisper campaign among his staunchest supporters in the congregation against the victim(s) and those trying to get at the truth and before you know it many of the congregates have turned on the victim(s) or leader(s) who dare to utter an "unproven allegation" against "our pastor". One had better have pictures or have personally observed the event and they may not be believed even then. More often times than not it is the accuser or the inquiring leader who is "hounded out of the congregation" or silenced by congregates who would rather turn a deaf ear than hear serious allegations against someone they have placed in a position of worship that should be reserved for the true head of the church, Jesus Christ. "Church leaders" in so many churches are fearful of "sticking their necks out" and bringing a charge against a pastor for fear of being beheaded by the very congregations they need to support them in matters of pastoral discipline. Even when done by the instructions set forth in 1 Tim 5:19 many of the faithful don't want to receive it. I can't count the times I've heard "that's just hearsay" or "that's her word against his" from congregation members... or "I don't listen to all that garbage... I just come to get the Word..." or take your pick of a dozen other rebuffs to suggestions that a pastor is engaged in acts of immorality in the local congregation. Not one blogger here has acknowledged the courageous act of the leadership at Shiloh in getting and keeping G out of the pulpit after looking into the allegations. Had G been allowed to come before the congregation and "plead his case" likely the accusers and the leadership who supported them would be outcasts and G would still be in the pulpit at Shiloh. Even today there are members in the congregation who believe that G didn't do anything and was wrongly treated by those same "church bosses" who are so severely criticized by some on this blog.
anon July 21 2008 12:01 AM and others who continue to hammer this theme that "church leaders" or "church bosses" should do this and that, etc., re-read what July 21, 2008 8:32 AM says in the first point of his reply. It won't satisfy you because someone's "blood" is required in your mind(s) but it is as accurate a response as I have seen on this issue.
Last point: Those of you who continue to repeat the story that the parents of the victimized teens were rebuffed when they went to the church leadership should stop it. You ought to get your facts straight before you start spewing out your erroneous accounts about "what happened." Especially those of you who say "I don't attend...".
The closer Shiloh gets to calling a new pastor the higher the "noise level" will get. Satan will do whatever he can to derail the process. However, Satan is a defeated foe and God's plan for His church will prevail. It may very well be that this "valley experience" for Shiloh is a lesson to all churches that Christ, not God's preacher, is the head of the church and it is He, not the pastor who is to be exalted in our worship.
1 Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
I come to speak with an objective point of view as I am not a member of the church! My husband and I live in the Los Angles metropolis, and know Rev. H. B. Charles, Jr. really well!
First, he is obviously a great preacher! There are no scandals on him. Yes, you're correct in that, H.B. doesn't have a seminary degree.
After listening and watching your candidates, I would say that DR. Joseph Evans seem to be a better fit for Shiloh. Why? In a word: Maturity! He has both the academic qualifications, character, experience, gift, and the ability to deal with the text in a profound way without the fanfare.
H.B. is a very nice young man with vast potential, but will bring in questionable ministers to preach.
In fact, if the whole truth be told, we are aware of another minister from California that submitted an resume, but apparently wasn't selected to be heard. He is in the Pasadena area, and his name is Rev. Wayne Cooper.
I have heard many great preachers/teachers in my lifetime, and I will have to include Mr. Cooper as one of the top ten easily. Why Shiloh didn't consider him is a mystery, but when my husband asked him had he been contacted, he was very respectful and philosophical by telling my husband that "God knows where He needs me".
I don't neccessarily think that H.B. would be a bad choice for Shiloh, but I think that Dr. Evans will bring instant credibility and stability to your church!
I am a deacon at Shiloh and I want to repent and confess. I am not the head deacon, so there was only so much I could do. We knew what DG was doing with the grown women. What surprised us was the children. The trouble at first was DG knew what some of the deacons were doing, so we couldn't talk. If DG had talked about what some of the leaders were doing, it could have destroyed some of their marriages. So we left him alone. Nobody ever thought it would come to this. He was bringing in the bacon. We left him alone. I would have been ostracized had I said anything. I am truly sorry to all the women who can't even acknowledge that they were victims. I am sorry for being silent when I should have spoken. I never thought so many people would get hurt.
There is at least one righteous leader at Shiloh. Thank you for your honesty. Now there is a place to begin a real discussion about what happened, and what needs to be done to help the women (and children) who were victimized.
Isn't it amazing how everything the church boss disagrees with is "Satan" and everything he says is "God"? Now Satan wants to derail the process, while the boss has derailed the fairness of the process. He has derailed the other 2 candidacies by not allowing them the same opportunity that he gave HB. He has deprived us of the opportunity to assess them fairly, by not allowing us to experience their ministries the same number of times. Is God not a just God? God does not have to cheat to get His will accomplished.
To Ms. Sylvia Watts; The other pastor in California that you mentioned was contacted but was not interested which is why he said' God knows where He needs me". Rev. Cooper is the one who recommended HB to us!
And about Dr. Evans, there is NO WAY I and many others in the congregation, will vote for him! I hate to say this, but that man had way too many feminine characteristics and I do not want to see that in any pastor! You think you had problems with DG, what do you think will happen when you get that kind of spirit in a church! ABSOLUTELY NOT!
You all keep asking about the others candidates and what happened. A lot of these candidates, we found out thru background checks, had or have some unsavory things going on, an we absolutely can't have anything like that again! So if there was any kind of blemish they had to be disqualified.
Now, there is a deacon with information. I know there is more. Ok, are you willing to help make a formal statement? Please do not let anyone else get hurt.
Please let's stay focus.
Did you ever wonder this could be a tactics to further DG?
It took a lot of courage for this deacon to take the chance of confessing through this blog. He needs to be commended for that.
His confession could be the saving grace here. Are there other deacons at Shiloh who can substantiate that the deacons knew of many victims?
(And thank you, deacon, for agreeing that the women, as well as the underage teens are "victims" and not "adulteresses." Victims do not commit adultery. The husbands of the victims need to understand that.)
When a pastor does unthinkable things in a church, and persuades the church leaders through fear, intimidation or even blackmail, to go along with what he's doing, the pastor perpetrator places everyone under his lie. It's a big ugly umbrella that blocks out the light.
When a church leader, like this deacon, comes forward to tell the truth, he steps out from under that lie umbrella into the light.
The sin/evil is the dastardly work of an evil man who wants to suck any and all he can into his evil. No one believes the deacon board wanted this evil in their church. But as long as the deacons are afraid to tell the truth, they remain under the lie umbrella. The way to get out from under it is to simply and openly tell the truth.
That's a truth that's difficult for the victims--which is why many are reluctant to come forward; they have much to lose. But the church leaders really have little to lose when they tell the truth.
And now, DG is gone. What's holding you back from telling the truth?
It is so amazing to me how such a little man could exert so much influence and control over other people. I can't believe some of those husbands, who found out he was messing with their wives, didn't just give him a good ole'fashioned beat down! it may have made him think twice the next time, but he senses weakness in others very well and knows who he can pull that junk on. It would not have bothered me one way or another if he didn't talk to me, fine! But i can understand those whose livelyhoods and families depended on those jobs, it couldn't have been an easy decision.
Don't think none of the others haven't come forward. They may not have done it on this forum or publicly but they have given their depositions to the SA.
Thank you SO much for coming forward! I and many others have prayed for repentance from the leadership, and this is a BIG deal for me and others to hear. Since you are anonymous, can you please shed some light for me as to what is currently going on with the leadership, in your opinion? By this I mean, have you sensed that God is working on other hearts also, especially the Deacons that were there when all of this was going on?
I thank God that you came forward and I believe that if you allow Him, God can use you to make a difference in all of this. Believe it or not, you are being used, even now!
I and others will be praying for you, that God will give you the strength and courage to continue to do the right thing.
The "haterade" seems to be flowing very well. It would appear to me that the shift would certainly focus on First Timothy and Pastor Fred Newbill for allowing Gilyard a platform. This appears to be tell those folks at Shiloh what to do blog.
From what I see on TV, Shiloh still has a lot of people attending it. It appears that Shiloh was built from the word of God and the backs of the tithing and offering of the people of God. Gilyard appeared to have been a vehicle of church growth for those at Shiloh.
Newbill and First Timothy need to be getting the negative energy, not the people that are going through the process of getting there pastor.
Hold on people and wait for the people of Shiloh to speak not a bunch of people that are misinformed.
Lastly, no one (Jacksonville as a whole-non for profits and other churches in the community) is even willing to hold a sign up or show a united front on sex with kids in front of First Timothy (Pastor Rod) because "the spirit has not led" them. The Pastor of this blog has grown silent I see. First Timothy is in front of and Elementary school and in the middle of many singe family homes, not gated communities.
Go on Shiloh bloggers, you show Jacksonville how to stick together as a healthy, striving congregation. Good luck to you over there. For you other interlopers, let Gilyard see you all at that Wednesday bible study he does on Wednesday nights. Let's see if you can really show the community that you want to "...stop pastor darrell gilyard together." If that is not the case, wait on the courts and families to do their job. The media did theirs.
Let First Timothy defend Gilyard and Newbill. Those are the real "church bosses".
To the deacon who apologized and confessed, I want you to know that I dearly appreciate your post. Also anon 7/21 11:09pm thank you for yours. Both your comments brought clarity as I suspected the truth was hard to pull out. And by history, Gilyard is all too familiar with the game. It truly must be one for him. This time I hope the game card says, "GO TO JAIL"
James Junior, July 22 @8:37 am, I like that comment! Every one has been riding Shiloh hard, but shouldn't Newbill and 1st Timothy get the same. I mean afterall, New bill is allowing him to preach in his church currently even after all these charges! Newbill can't say he doesn't know!
For all of you that feel Shiloh just sat idly by and did nothing, but yet you are willing to sit Idly by while he still preaches in another community right across the street from a school. Now I ask you like you asked us, What kind of Christians are YOU?!
With all due respect to you, I think you're misinformed on several fronts:
1. After reading your comments, my husband called Pastor Cooper, and he doesn't remember ever having been contacted by anyone from Shiloh. Perhaps you have someone else in mind??
2. Dr. Evans is very much a man from what I can see, and believe it or not, he and HB Charles know each other, and have preached on the same platforms many times. Again, I adore HB, but Dr. Evans is much more mature and stable!
3. I would encourage your committee to make sure they are sincere in getting "God's man", and not their "flunkie".
4. I have no respect for men who, would know that the pastor is sleeping with their wives and do nothing about it! What kind of "men" does Shiloh have in Leadership positions?
Hello James Junior; The so called Pastor of this blog reads it every day.Remember that I was a member of Shiloh for 7 years not 1st Timothy.I talked to many of the women who were unwillingly harassed by Darrell and some who willing slept with him.I was the one who spear-headed the attempt to have the leaders of Shiloh act,and the congregation vote to remove Darrell from his position.What did I get for my effort...basically THROWN OUT OF THE CHURCH.If you are a member of Shiloh during those days.What did you do?
He may not "remember" but he was contacted and referred us to another great pastor he knew, HB!
I don't know what kind of men you are use to, but I and MANY others did not feel that DR. Evans was all man. The persona we saw with our own eyes when he preached here, left many with that impression and were quite uncomfortable with it and didn't like it at all.
While this blog is open for your opinion, it is just that "an opinion". Obviously by your statement "Dr. Evans is very much a man from what I can see, and believe it or not, he and HB Charles know each other, and have preached on the same platforms many times. Again, I adore HB, but Dr. Evans is much more mature and stable!"- you have some very strong opinions on who Shiloh should call to be our next pastor. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), you have not been asked to be an advisor, counselor, or member of the Pastoral Search Committee. Had you been, your opinions might have weighed into the equation.
Whether the readers of this blog want to believe it or not, there will be a process that affords all MEMBERS the right to voice their opinion on who our pastor should be. Should you truly want your opinion to count, the membership option is available. If not..it's kind of like people who want to complain about the president, derail the political process, or say that things are not equitable, but who won't go out and vote. Thanks for your opinion but...we'll make up our own minds.
As for me, it may not be HB but it DEFINITELY won't be Evans. His reputation precedes him. Education, social programs, and political prowess will not get one person into heaven.
Many on this blog have greatly appreciated Pastor Rod's input. He is a man of great compassion and courage. Thank you Pastor Rod for standing with and behind the victims. You've done the right thing.
If you read much earlier on this blog site you will find that Pastor Rod explained why he could not participate in a protest.
From what they've stated on this blog, Anon 10:21 and James Junior were aware that DG was teaching at 1st Timothy. Why didn't they pick up a picket and protest? Weren't they concerned for the women and children at 1st Timothy? They were just aware as Pastor Rod.
Too proud to hold a picket sign? Did anyone call Newbill and offer up some wise counsel? Especially since the deacons (according to the one who confessed) were aware of DG's problems. It's not gossip when people's lives are at stake.
This question is for the leaders of Shiloh. If Evans is DEFINITELY NOT the type man you want to see in your pulpit, why is he even on your "short list?"
In the event Evans receives more votes than HB, how will that be handled? Will you allow him to assume his position of Pastor or will you concoct a plan to get rid of him?
I find it totally disheartening that you would imply that Evans' "manhood" is questionable when you present absolutely no evidence to substaniate your claim.
Anon July 22, 2008 4:02 PM At least the church boss is backing up his or her comments with scripture. Where is your scriptural support for your rants?
Eph 6:11,12 "6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
The sleeping giant has awakend! Pastor Rod, you are not a member of First Timothy and stand independently I would gather. It still does not excuse you from actively tryng to stop Gilyard. The woman who started the blog was on the news and appears to be willing to stand infront of a camera and say I told you so. You have chosen to stand behind a blog.
I know that most Pastors in this town will not say a thing in public but "pray for him and the victims". That's the safe thing to do, even thogh they don't have to risk being "kicked out" of Shiloh.
One Senior Pastor spoke in detail about Pastor Wright with his comments that nearly derailed one of the presidential candidates campaign. Spoke up for the JTA boss a few years ago too. Yeah, he was certainly backing one of his people which show grit in my opinion. But why did he not come out publically and say anything about Gilyard? You are not to try to answer that, that just a rhetorical question.
Believe me, I will standby and allow Shiloh to make their decision and not blame the people in the pews for Gilyards foolishness. No one, not even you went to the media about this.
Keep the people of God encouraged. It's obvious that no one wants to hold First Timothy accountable so leave Shiloh to pick a Pastor of their choice.
Dawn Lopez is easy to contact by email. "let's stop pastor darrell gilyard together" not pick a Pastor for Shiloh.
As for me and what I'm doing, I'm basically exposing how people like you will play preacher until it's time to really lead. I must wait also on the investigation against him and the charges before I will protest First Timothy if he is convicted and only get's probation and continues to preach at that church. I can wait on the investigation, the court and Shiloh to pick a Pastor. I will not not try to say the spirit has not led me. "...the spirit of truth, will lead us into all truth." I'm sure you bible scholars know where that comes from, right?
Since you knew so much, did you contacted the State Attorney on what you knew when you were a member of Shiloh?
I must continue to reiterate to you this, Shiloh looks healthy on TV, Beaver Street still get's congested when they have services and from the Shiloh folks that I know of, most seem to be happy with getting a new Pastor and moving forward.
Lean on First Timothy and Gilyard not Shiloh, bloggers.
Where is your church Pastor Rod? I will certainly visit it like the many I have visited in Jacksonville.
I will continue to watch Shiloh in the am on Sunday, even when they get the new Pastor.
I don't need alot of scripture to back up my comments at this point, alot of the bloggers have conviently used and misused the scripture already not mentioning any one in particular, so don't take it personal.
Anon 1:26 pm. The comment about Dr.Evans ABSOLUTELY NOT being an option came from me, a member, not the leaders. It is my opinion and I only have 1 vote, but it will not be cast in his direction. I happen to know that alot of others feel the way I do. They showed portions of their taped interviews this past Sunday and I will have to tell you it seems many felt the same way.
About my presenting evidence to the fact, if you had been at Shiloh that Sunday and saw him with your own eyes you would know what I was referring to. His mannerisms and demeanor is just not what I want to see in my pastor every Sunday.
I definitely don't see him getting more votes than HB.
I know there are some who contacted Newbill to tell him he was making a mistake. Deacons of 1st Timothy have talked with deacons of Shiloh to find out what was going on. They went back to Newbill with it and he basically said, 'I'm the pastor of this church and I say he stays, take it or leave it'.
Many may not know this, but DG and Newbill are tight and have decided to stick together in this thing. I don't think they have been getting the influx of people like DG probably thought; I think he thought a lot of people would leave shiloh to follow him and that just hasn't been the case.
To Anon 4:42 - thank you for your clarification. Sometimes you can only do your best to warn others. The people of 1st Timothy also have a duty in this case. It's hard to believe they are not aware of the allegations against DG or that he is "out on bail" awaiting his trial. Grace is one thing, but prudence is another.
If the private phone calls to Newbill didn't work, then a protest probably would have been an ineffective charade.
Pastor Rod is not the enemy here. Nor is anyone else. A lot of people have been hurt because of what DG was doing.
I don't see that the bloggers here are trying to put undue pressure on Shiloh. I'm sure there are some who are seeing if they could go back to Shiloh--if they could trust the leaders there again. That's important stuff.
When one member of the body hurts, the whole body hurts. To just cut members off--even if they have chosen to leave because of what happened--is not the best way to bring healing to this situation.
What would it hurt to wait a few more weeks before calling a new pastor? Shiloh is apprently doing well in the interim. Why the rush to call a new pastor?
Perhpas HD, as wonderful a guy as he is, needs a little more looking into. Ms. Watts raises some legitimate concerns. You wouldn't want to throw a younger, more inexperienced man without professional credentials into a situation that requires a lot of wisdom, especially once things heat up with DG in the courts.
MY,MY,MY, SYLIVA , so you know him well, WELL. And you come with an objective point of view.Sounds like you are a HB hater , i dont know him as well as you do, but the week he was here , he was very open and also (it may shock you) has a MIND of his own , no flunkie can pastor for 17 yrs. his info is open to anyone who wants to know. you tell me SYLVIA why hb is a bad choice for a church you will never attend? O yeah a man with no scandals and a great preacher (your words) but you did get that right. i heard that hb is furthering his seminary training he has gone to school( o you may already know this) , but because the LORD has BLESSED him at such an early age has yet to finish , but will be going back , i think he PASTORS a CHURCH 17 yrs. ( you tell me) and has a family ( you tell me) your OBJECTIVE view is INSULTING to me especially you being from LA an all. Think you just hate to lose such a GREAT preacher that GOD is using. RESPECTFULLY ALL MAN. so you dont think this is some kind of cat fight. have a good day Cooper.
God bless you pastor Rod. I appreciate all your input and enjoy reading your comments. Be encouraged.
You are right anon 7:22, pastor Rod was a voice crying in a wilderness. Not many were trying to hear him because they did not want to be as bold as him. This man should not be attacked.
Okay scholars help me out here. In a familier book it reads, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether the fornicators of this world, or with covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 wrtten by a fellow named Paul.
That's just something for the ones who needs the scriptural support. Please expound these words for the scholars please? Lay people do not know what this says. Certainly a preacher with mass credentials and knowledge of the Greek text can help me out here? Yea right! Paul was talking to church folk! Not people out in the world. Scripture only affirm good common sense. a fellow named Timothy reminds us that scripture is inspired by God and profitable for doctrine, reproof, CORRECTION, INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS...
Certainly Pastor Rod is not the enemy, I just want to attend his church.
Credentials, flunkies? Sounds like Newbill is Darrells flunky. The First Timothy deacons are Newbills flunky. Good, they are atleast all in one place now.
Darrell is an exordinary preacher and he does not have credentials the first and ran a megachurch. It appears that he just can't keep his hands off women and children.
Okay Anon 7:22 and Kay. Let me clarify. Being a member of Shiloh 7 years does not qualify a person to keep folk chattering about Shiloh or any other church and their obvious mistake at an individual like Darrell Gilyard.
Like you say, the predator is the issue here.
The difference is this, Pastor Rod basically says that he knew too, but kept it in the confines of friends at Shiloh. Again, hedid not go to the media. He said that he spoke with the victims that were willing and unwilling, right?
I didn't know about Gilyard because I'm not a church worker or an insider at Shiloh. It appeared to me that he was admitting that he was a part of the problem by revealing the reason he had to leave Shiloh on this blog.
Most people that are kicked out of a place raise sand while going out. It's obvious some go but go in silence, then when something happends then they want to say they knew but nobody did anything. The media is a fine place to start. As big as a figure as he is, Dawn Lopez is giving him the business.
Read between the lines here, this stuff finally hit the press in Jacksonville in Dec 2007, long after Rod left Shiloh. O-bye-the-way, as you can see, I use my own name as a signature of my statement. I don't leave my stuff blank.
James why is it that you want to attend Rod's church. I know it is some people's job to critique churches and it appears that's all you want to do. I thought I was jaded about preachers and churches but I believe you have me beat.
That's a good point you bring up about Darrell not having credentials and how he ran a church. Yeah! ran it amok! Having credentials shows one major thing among other things: Discipline. Something Darrell didn't have quite enough of. Like it or not, most all employers like to know that you have a degree and it doesn't always matter what it's in--just that you have one.
Anon 8:21, you mean I can't go to his church? Why do I want to go to his church? Well, to hear the word of God being preached by the man of God. Isn't that the reason most people attend church?
I'm not quite sure what being 35 years old has to do with his calling and abilities. HB was called to be the pastor of his cuurent church when he was 17 after the death of his father. I don't know many 17 yo that could have taken on that responsibility(just think about your own teenagers if you will). They looked for an entire year for a pastor, and obviously weren't able to find what they wanted/needed and therefore called HB. I think that says an awful lot about him! To be placed in such a position at such an early age , I can only imagine he had to grow up, mature and develop at a fast rate in order to still be the pastor there 18years later.
Again, and I have said this before, what does age have to do with it when God has called you. Whenever God wants to use you, He will provide you with what you need to accomplish his will. How many preachers do you know that started preaching at 50; most of them started at an early age.
There are so many Biblical examples of great men of God that he chose at an early age.Joseph, David, Samuel, just to name a few. What about Billy Graham, called by many to be the greatest evangelist of our time, was in his 20's when he was called into his ministry. Joel Osteen(some like him, some don't) has one of the largest, if not THE largest ministries today and what is he 30s to 40s?
So just because the man is 35, that means he is to young and inexperienced for the job. Thank God, He is the one who does the calling and not man! I'm so glad He is so much bigger than our limited thinking. For man looks at the outer appearance but God looks at the heart. It just may be that in God's eyes HB has the HEART for the job!!
299 comments:
1 – 200 of 299 Newer› Newest»Can anyone advise me as to when DG's next court date is ?
Darrol Gillard's next court date will probably be in September 09 if Hank Coxe has anything to do with it! By the way, how does everyone feel about the STOP SNITCHING movement in the Ponte Vedra Rape Case? Hank Coxe and the parents of the possible defendants have been less than forthcoming! This soft media coverage and blogging is not how it's done on the "other" side of town. Wrong is wrong, and being affluent or attending Bolles doesn't exclude you from God's Justice System. Yep I said it. God is no respector of person. If a young lady was raped, then it's wrong!
startsnitching pontevedra can you advise me more on this case ?
OMG,
I just stumbled across this blog. As a teenager my family attended Victory Baptist Church, where Mr. Gilyard was Pastor. He left Dallas and our church with allegations of sexual advances and harassment. He also was exposed for being less than truthful about his background. This is truly said that 15 years later, Mr. Gilyard is still up to his old tricks, and has only gotten worse, now he is going after teenagers, rather than women of legal consent.
Pastor Rod what is happening with your research on the possible try for take over of DG of Newbill's church ?
Talked with a current member and this story appears not to be true.
I spoke with someone that works at the SA office and it appears that DG's attorney was recently there arguing that the things being said and reported about his client are simply not true. With the recent R Kelly trial results, unless the SA can make this victim's story stick, DG will be cleared.
D.G. IS NOT GOING TO GET AWAY THIS TIME.THINGS ARE ABOUT TO HIT THE FAN!
How are things about to hit the fan?
Does anyone else find the picture posted by siditty offensive? on June 22 10:57PM What the person said was okay but I don't understand the picture. It feels akin to voyeurism or pornography.
Hey I am anon 6:53pm commenting on the June 12 10:57 post. Please take out and scrap my use of the word voyeurism. That word is way too much for what I meant. I just looked up the definition and was offended a thousand times more than the picture!! Sorry I thought I knew what the word meant. I heard Oprah use it on her show once and thought I understood the context of how to use it. I thought it meant innocently, unpremeditatedly catching someone in a personal private moment such as what the pix seems to display. Now I really do apologize to ANYONE that found my own comment disgusting.
Regarding "unless the SA can make this victim's story stick, DG will be cleared."June 15, 2008 10:32 PM
Do not worry. Just be patient and keep praying for justice.
Yes, I am curious too, ANON. How are things about to hit the fan?
Whats happening? There hasn't been any comments in the past six days.
I have "heard through the grapevine" that Shiloh Metropolitan Church has recently made some changes and have been trying to find a good Pastor. I have been told that many of the "Gilyard followers" left and for the most part this has been needed.
I am saying this only to applaud any efforts for cleaning up the church. Also to let those of you that left and are still out of your church home - just so you know you may want to give it a second chance.
Shiloh is not my Church home and
I'm not trying to sway anyone here, just giving out the information. This is definitely something one would need to pray about.
The last thing I would want to see is anyone out of church altogether because of this. There are many great Churches in our city.
Tiffany,
Thanks for the information. First, my following commentary has nothing to do with you. I don't want to "shoot" the messenger, and I appreciate the fact that you said you "heard it through the grapevine".
The idea that "some" of Gilyard's followers have left is enough to STILL concern me. My understanding is that there are still some there in leadership roles that allowed this man in the pulpit to begin with. There has been no real accountability in the leadership, including Gilyard himself! As an ex-Shiloh member, I'm not convinced that the place has been cleaned up very much, as far as the leaders go. After all, they are the ones who are the ultimate decision makers there. When I think about it, the current Assistant Pastor has been preaching at Shiloh for MANY years. I don't believe he was there when Gilyard was hired, but a person would have to be very naive to think he didn't know about his past, and some of his more recent indiscresions, and he seemingly did nothing about it except to say "yes" to his own preaching position. What's wrong with this picture? Did he not do his homework? Why haven't some Deacons been dealt with? I believe before anyone returns to that church, they should ask themselves these questions, and as you said PRAY!! As for me, I won't be returning.
Ms. J.
I'm with you Ms. J
Highly unlikely I would return to Shiloh. No desire.
Ms.J you are correct in your assessment. Most of the leaders at Shiloh new very well about DG's past activities as well as his those he committed while at Shiloh. It was basically about the money he was bringing in and the fact that most of those in position of leadership were/are weak spineless men who wouldn't do anything about the situation. DG knew this about his deacon and trustee boards, but it was exactly what he wanted. That way he could run amok and do whatever he wanted.
It would have been difficult under the circumstances to clean house all at once. It would have been even more devastating to lose your pastor, asst. pastor, deacons, etc all at once, it truly would have been a mess! Things will never be right at Shiloh until that place gets cleaned out! That is why we have to pray that we will get GOD'S man there and he may do his own house cleaning when he gets in the position. Let's pray!!!
The criteria for choosing a pastor is in 1Tim.3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9.After going to Shiloh's web sites and veiwing the standards they are using to select their new pastor,it appears they are making a legitimate effort.But in talking to several friends still at Shiloh,the search commitee have in their minds to pick someone WITH A BIG NAME WHO CAN DRAW PEOPLE.No consideration whether he exposits truthfully the entire counsel of God's Word.And as previously mentioned many of the corrupt people that protected D.G.are still in place.I will say this,it appears that Dea.Pringle is attempting to choose a good man as their new pastor.
I got news yesterday of who Shiloh is leaning toward installing as new pastor. I spent a lot of time today reading up on him online and he seems to be a very good man and just what they need there. (I am praying they won't corrupt him once he gets there) that he is sufficiently strengthened to do the work there, that God will give him all wisdom to keep his eyes on Him and his hand in God's hand. The ch. leaders say they're going to let the congregation vote on who it is but realisticly they will decide and put who they want in there. Won't say who it is since I don't want to influence the outcome unfavorably by saying his name. We'll all see who it is soon enough. Pray for this church.
I am surprised that they're actually looking at someone "good". Can you give any hints to his background or educaion? Maybe he'll make the diffrence and I can return to Shiloh. I've head different names from different people, so I'm not sure who to believe.....
Instead of speculating and spreading rumors about what Shiloh is doing and who they are considering, please continue to pray that the leaders are Spirit led in their decison making process.
You all may not want to admit it but you are spreading rumors!! The things that have been repeated in the last few blogs are hearsay.
Anon 7:01am Hint: He already has a wife and family.:)
Anon 10:46am It's fun to speculate in the interim and there's not a thing wrong with it. Lighten up, enjoy life! I already said PRAY for the church for prayer is necessary.
Ms. "K" Your comment actually made me laugh! When I referenced background..it was to pastoral expereince in large ministries and his theology education. THANK GOD he already has a wife and family. He'll certainly need their support. Thanks....I'm praying too!
Anon 1:01pm, glad it had the intended effect:)
"Let he that is without sin cast the first stone!" I pray for the church family during their search for another paster. Some of you just don't realize that GOD has orchestrated this entire situation.....for the next pastor to step in the pulpit. We need to ask ourselves are we going to church for the man himself or for a personal relationship with GOD. To GOD be the glory in this situation. As GOD stands to be good all the time through all situations that we encounter.
It is not heresay; we will be voting soon and very soon on our new pastor. He does indeed seem to be a very good man who has been preaching since age 16. We are indeed excited about him; out of all the canidates we have seen he stands out the most. We are still praying that GOD give us spiritual wisdom and guidance in our selection. he should be preaching again 2nd Sunday in July so come visit if you have a chance!
I suppose it is easier to justify your gossiping by saying it's fun to speculate, instead of saying you're wrong.
If you're not guilty of spreading rumor this is not directed towards you and there is no need to respond.
Yes, anon 11:51pm that's the one I was referring to.. as you all anticipate your new pastor there are many praying for your best in this matter.
Most of what is said here on this blog is what people have heard. This is not your spot.
Anon 11:51pm I'm a member of Shiloh and have been following this blog for some time. Why are we talking as if an election has already been decided if there has been no election yet. Isn't everyone's favorite candidate the one that stands out the most to them. Will my vote count if your candidate is not my choice? I'm trying to stay and support Shiloh, but I don't want to be told again that I really don't matter. I think we need a more mature leader. I don't want to go through what we've been through again.
Anon 1:10pm. There is a candidate that has received more positive feedback than any other. Unfortunately, when we vote it will be the majority vote that will select the next pastor and it very well may not be your choice; as it goes with any other election.I do feel they are making every effort to choose a 1Timothy pastor because no one wants what we had in the past. That's why we as a congregation have to pray that GOD gives us discernment to vote for the right man of God.
I whole heartedly agree with anonymous from 7/1/2008 at 1:10pm--that rather suggest to me who I should vote for, let me hear the Preachers equally and make up my own mind. Here is a question, "Why is one preacher coming back to preach on Wednesday (7/9) and Sunday (7/13), and no one has mentioned when the other canidates are coming back to preach? With this in mind, are we under an emperor? Who will lead us when we do in fact get a Pastor? Is this a congregationalist church? Is this a true democracy, or are you trying to disenfranchise the voters of this church? Our state has been known for disenfranchising its voters (ex. Bush/Gore). The church's standard should be based on fairness, equity, truth, and justice---a solid foundation.
You are not well informed. you will have at least 3 to choose from and you will see them again. But everyones favorite can't possibly be the pastor, there will only be one and that will be the one with the MOST votes. You get to vote for your choice as in any democracy but he may or may not be the selection.
I tend to agree with anon. 6/28 10:43am and anon. 7/3 11:02am. The church bosses are trying to get us to rubber stamp their ready made decision. They must really think we're stuck on stupid!!! Sure, we are praying; but are we watching?
Ok for anony. 7/3/2008 1220pm. We are not electing someone for 2 to 4 years. The next person may serve 20 to 40 years. That means if you error, you impact the next generation. After Communion, there are only 3 Sundays left in July if as rumored, we are voting in July. If we are going to see them in a fair way, we have to see them over the next 3 Sundays. So when will we see the other canidates? Will they have the same opportunity before us as does the canidate we know is coming? or will the church boss pick the pastor for us? There is so much that I just don't know.
I'm not sure if the Man that will be in on the 8th and the 12th, knows of all the back door drama , I heard that they asked him back due to some folks that didn't get a chance to hear him, that's what they have said to him. He doesn't come across has wanting to over step or be pushed in front of us, we want GOD to more . I think he is just doing want they asked him, lets not hold that against him. If this is of GOD no man can step in and change anything. Lets keep praying.
Shiloh members,
If you have an issue with the way things are being handled at Shiloh, instead of complaining about it on this blog(which will not make a difference one way or another) why not take those concerns to the leaders at the church? The contact information for members of the search committee are published in the Vision on a regular basis. This is definitely not the forum to discuss church matters. Things should be done decent and in order.
We will not be voting in July but probably definitely by September. AGAIN, you will have at least 3 candidates to vote on, so your vote will count but AGAIN there can only be one choice. This is why you need to pray for the search committee and all people involved in this process, so that GOD's will is done. PRAY and TRUST GOD!
Is this the "Let's Stop Darrell Gilyard Together" or "Let's bash Shiloh even though we don't know what we're talking about" Blog? Tiffany set this up to address a specific problem in the Church family (and that is brave, commendable, and useful to the cause of Christ). However, it's devolving into rants about "church bosses"--whatever that means, "rubber stamps", and all kinds of uninformed supposition, speculation, rumors, innuendo, and in some cases outright lies--and from what appears to be Shilites! What a shame! Where is the spirituality and the desire for God's will to be done in his church? Consider this: The members of the congregation read a candidate's Bio (provided by the "church bosses") and hears him preach once for 40 minutes or so on a given Sunday--maybe twice if they attend the 8:00 AM service. Search Committee members (and "church bosses") are responsible for examining these candidates thorougly and spend hours reviewing resumes, sermon tapes, CDs, or DVDs; interviewing selected candidates; dining with them while they are in town; observing them "up close and personal"; checking background; and in some cases visiting their home churches, etc. Who is going to have a better insight into the temperment, spirituality, administrative knowledge, sincerity, vision, leadership ability, and so on--the person that hears one sermon or the people that spend days, weeks, and sometime months interacting with these candidates and measuring them against the standards set fortn in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus? Calling a pastor is a serious responsibility and all of the people I know who are involved take it as a sacred duty. Jer. 3:15 says "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". The Church has two responsibilities: Evangelization of the lost and the edification of the Body of Christ. How is that ccomplished? Through the preaching and teaching of the Word of God. Rom 10:14-15 says "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! The Pastor has two responsibilities: The feeding and the protection of the flock. To that end, the responsibility of the "church bosses" is bring before the congregation anointed "Men of God" who can give "the people of God" a "Heart for God" by preaching to them the unadulterated "Word of God". Calling a pastor ain't no popularity or beauty contest and it sho' ain't no democracy. Man proposes-God disposes. This is a spiritual mission. The people of God should be seeking His face and praying for spiritual discernment to recognize the man that He (God), not the "church bosses", has already ordained to lead Shiloh on the next "leg" of this Christian journey. There should also be prayers that the search committee members be guided by the Holy Spirit in all deliberations concerning this matter. When the "bashing" is replaced by continous and fervent prayer there isn't time for speculation about conspiracies by "church bosses" trying to put one over on the people. By the way, a lot of good information concerning the voting date, procedure, short list, etc., is contained in the church newsletter. It's worth a read sometime. Also worth noting: the average time to "fill the pulpit" when a pastor leaves is 18-24 months. Shiloh is preparing for a vote in something short of seven months. Credit that to a rigorous process, a lot of dedicated people, the absence of petty bickering and posturing among the leadership, and the blessing of God. To God be the Glory. Great things He has done!
2 Tim 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Happy Independence Day everybody!
Anon 6/28 10:43 You said: "The ch. leaders say they're going to let the congregation vote on who it is but realistically they will decide and put who they want in there. Won't say who it is since I don't want to influence the outcome unfavorably by saying his name,." How does that work? If the outcome is predetermined as you speculate then how can your saying his name influence the outcome? That is curious logic!
Anon 6/30 7:01 AM - You are "surprised that they are looking for someone good?" What did you think--Shiloh would go out looking for a "bad pastor?"
You say some did not hear him. Couldn't they have come to church on the Sunday he preached? I'm sure some missed other preacher's sermons as well. Now you tell us "Back by popular demand". Who knew to ask for their favorite preacher? This sounds like legacy from DG..."do as I say, not as I do". If a member questions anything, that person is ostracized or is "not praying" or is "not led of God". If I disagree with the church boss it doesn't mean that I'm not praying or not led of God. It means I want God to be the "Church Boss". And God hasn't been the church boss in a very long time. This is a blog on the World Wide Web. You cannot control this blog like you control Shiloh. At least the blog allows us a voice. Everyone seems to think that the church boss is making the decision. Even earlier blogs reference one person making the decision who our next pastor will be. I DO have one vote, and that vote may already have been "disenfranchised", but God is still God! And HIS will be Done!
The vote thing is a charade. There will be a perfunctory vote and that is it. You will have the illusion that you were included. I don't trust Shiloh at all. On a larger scale the notion is the masses are not wise enough to make an important and long-term decision. We saw this recently with the Democrat candidate election. Hillary kept saying she had the majority popular vote, at the same time she didn't have the most electoral votes. This point is why she stayed in it so long hoping to sway the unpledged electorates. I did not vote for Hillary (I did vote) I'm just reminding us how "democracy" works. Electoral votes meaning a small group of people in contrast to all the people in this country do in fact ELECT Party candidates and the president. Wake up and stop being naive. Churches in this instant are the same way, they/leaders choose who they want not necessarily who you want. They perceive their judgement to be better than yours. Not saying in the least that I agree with this. Your vote may not count in all the ways you want it to but prayer does count in all of these issues. We may not be able to control the vote but we can reach a God who is on the throne and is sovereign. Herein, do not despair, take heart! God's will will prevail. Pray without ceasing. Do what you can and continue to pray.
I will say I think the reason there is a small group of wise people, hopefully wise, making decisions for the majority ( both political and spiritual) is as a precaution so that the right person can in fact be chosen. That's why as anon 7/4/08 12:05am pointed out "There should also be prayers that the search committee members be guided by the Holy Spirit in all deliberations concerning this matter." And I must admit this does sound like one of your "boss" shilites.lol
This is why the leadership in church have to be prayed for and scrutinized. They're leading you!!!
You make a tremendous point anon 12:05am and you do too anon 1:56pm. Enjoyed reading your post. Anon 8:46am I said "leaning toward" meaning their minds could change. You also said to Anon 6/30 7:01 AM - You are "surprised that they are looking for someone good?" What did you think--Shiloh would go out looking for a "bad pastor?" I think anonymous was thinking Shiloh might go looking for someone just to keep bringing the money (meaning people) in as a first priority. You know what anonymous meant. The staff is paid well and they wanna keep getting paid. As we all know the love of money can corupt. Oooh! you better pray!! and get someone in there other than what Gilyard was.
To Kay and others using this blog to talk about what's happening at Shiloh:
You are doing the right thing to discuss this in an open forum. These are exactly the kinds of talks the Search Committee members should be having with as many members of Shiloh as possible.
Given how so many members of Shiloh were hurt by what Gilyard did, and the fact that the "church bosses" have lost trust with many in the congregation (just read this blog!), it would behoove the Search Committee to be certain that as many congregation members as possible are satisfied with a particular candidate.
In other words, don't just rely on visits with the candidate, but talk and listen to members in the congregation--especially those who were directly hurt by Gilyard--to see if a particular candidate is the right man to stand at the helm (cf. Acts 6:1-7 for guidance in this situation). Whoever steps in technically/biblically has the duty to minister to those who have been hurt. He needs to warrant to the congregation that such harm will never happen again, but he also needs to take measures to see it doesn't happen again.
It's not just up to those who have been hurt to "forgive". Rather, the church leaders need to take this opportunity to regain the trust they lost under Gilyard. They need to take an honest look at how Gilyard was able to do what he did under their radar. Those who have been hurt need to be comforted and ministered to. They need to have a say as to who will step into the pulpit.
All of the pastoral candidates need to be fully apprised as to what happened under Gilyard, and the harm Gilyard caused. There are undoubtedly many men who would jump at the chance to take over the reins of such a successful church--success that came at the expense of Gilyard's innocent victims. But the incoming pastor needs to be aware that there are undoubtedly those who have left. What will he do to bring those sheep back to the fold? Those who have chosen to remain at Shiloh need to understand what happened and how it will affect them as church members.
If Shiloh acts too quickly to pick a replacement, then the prayers for God's wisdom and discernment in choosing the right man to lead Shiloh will be in vain, and the congregation of Shiloh may never heal from what Gilyard did.
I am praying for the healing of the congregation of Shiloh. The people of Shiloh need healing before they need a Gilyard replacement. The office of pastor is too important a position to rush.
Jesus is Lord!!!
One thing I know and believe is that this did not surprise GOD! HE knew what would happen with DG and that we would need a pastor. HE has also chosen that pastor; we have to be obedient, diligent and prayerful to see him. I know that many members along with other clergy and the community have been praying about this situation. We have done our best to set the standards, follow the criteria, pray, and investigate our choices. I believe with all my heart that GOD will not fail us! he knows that we love HIS WORD and our church and will not leave the faithful to flounder. How do you know that the pastor we will select is EXACTLY who GOD had in mind all along? Stop criticizing and PRAY!!
Please keep praying about minor girls case with Gilyard.
This may not be the right forum for my inquiry. If so I apologize, but does anyone know where Marcus Henry is? Some in the Singles' ministry used to call him "chicken wing". I have not seen him since he left Shiloh in 1999 at the same time a lot of others left including Pastor Rod. When all of this came out with Gilyard it made me remember him and I would like to speak to him again. If you know Marcus please contact me or have him contact me at: krd924@bellsouth.net Thank you.
Great Sermon,Anon.JULY 4TH 12:05A.M,Where were you when the great leaders of Shiloh hired Gilyard?
To anon July 8, 2008, 9:56pm. You know where anon July 4th 12:05am was. He was controlling the process as he's doing now. If he is not careful playing God's part, we'll be in the same postion not far down the road. We will be electing another pastor in a few years, if the "church boss" can't control this one. It would do us good to explore our options and at least look at the other candidates as much as we have seen and heard this one. That way, we can properly ascertain God's will, not the church boss's preference. Man looks on the outward appearance, God looks on the heart(1 Sam. 16:7). We need to know the heart of the Preacher. No man---church boss and search committee included----can reveal that to us. But God can. Pray as never before.
It would be "nice" to have a 4,976 person Search Committee, but not very wise. In the absence of a Pastor, the Deacons have the tremendous responsibility to select a candidate, or candidates, to present to the congregation for Pastor. 24 members in good standing were selected; their names, and pictures were published. They have reviewed over 110 resumes, with sermons. Interviews were conducted for 3-4 hours on Saturdays per candidate over the past 4 months. Now we, as members, have the great responsibility of being guided by the Holy Spirit to select the leader for the next generation of Shilites. I take my responsibility serious, and have spoken to some of the committee members to tell them I'm praying for them during the process. I for one, would not be upset for not being chosen to be on the committee, as I believe God causes all things to work out for the good of them that love the Lord, and are the called according to his purpose. So, I will be at The Met tonight at 7:30pm, praying and praising that God continues to bless us through this ordeal, since I was not here to vote on the last Pastor. I truly believe The Best Is Yet To Come! Shilohmedia.com is available for those who choose not to come tonight, or Sunday. Members will have the privilege of voting on one of three candidates presented by the Search Committee. I will be listening, and discussing with an open heart to the Search Committee members I know.
I thought HB did an excellent job last night at Wednesday night service. I will continue to pray that GOD will gives us His spiritual wisdom and make it plain and clear to us who the next pastor will be.
I listened with much anticipation last evening to Rev. Charles. I was anxious to hear the candidate that everyone says the church boss is pushing. There was so much drama and build up before he even spoke. It was like "meet our new pastor", not meet one of our candidates. I was really offended by that. I prayed very hard and enerstly asked that God would open my heart and ears to whatever word HE gave this Man of God. He made a number of good 'points' throughout the message, but there was something missing. There was no power. It was a good message, but with no power. Rev. Charles seems like a very nice man with a very nice family. He tried so hard to please us and to make points that would hit home, but there was no power. At one point, I found myself really praying for him, but the annointing was not there. I was so happy that people came to Christ from his preached word, but I think that Shiloh needs more that a nice preached word. The annointing on the Man of God will always make the difference in that man, and his church. I want Shiloh to begin to make a difference in the body of Christ. I looked at Rev. Charles after he was done, and felt sad for him, because I saw him as a very young man that the leadership could destroy, instead of supporting. I'm really praying with all my heart for God's will to be done. I pray that God will send to us what we need to make us better servants for HIM, not what we want to further our own agenda. I just can't do another DG agenda. This decision is important to me and my family. I'll leave Shiloh before I or my family sit under another pastor and leadership that won't abide by the word of God. It is a mandate for me. I have to be able to look at my pastor and know immediately that he is annointed of God. I just don't have that feeling yet. Please pray for me.
Anon. 7/10/2008 9:19 am. I would remark that HB did a "good" job last night, but I think that the other candidates did a "better" job when we heard them. Will the others have additional preaching opportunities at Shiloh as well? How can we base our vote fairly when we hear one candidate more than the others?
Anon 7/10/2008 11:18 am. Rev. Charles IS your new pastor. The other candidates will just be names used to make the process look complete. You know the deal.
I attended the service last night and saw the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives. 5-6 people came forward for decisions, that's power. His message was to be filled with the Holy Spirit, which I believe gives us the power to be sucessful going forward. The preacher does not provide the power we need. The Holy Spirit has given us the power, we need to use it. Let's pray if he is the preferred vote getter that God will use his life as the powerful message. He has 3 beautiful children, and a wife who has been his high school sweetheart, with 10 years of marriage under their belts. I would love to have him "grow" at the Met, having been at his fathers church for the past 16 yrs. Again, if he does get the majority of votes, I hope we can unite with the majority and move forward, and not want to stay "in the wilderness". The committee may want him, but the members have the final say. It looked like more than 1,000 were excited last night!
Well Anon 11:18. It's unfortunate, but I think you're right. Shilite 1:29 confirms what I was feeling. I guess this really is all a show. He will have to "grow" with Shiloh. That's not what I'm looking for. DG "grew" with Shiloh and look at what happened. He does have a lovely family and seems like a very likeable person. But Shiloh is not the church to "grow" in. We (I) need help with my healing. I can't help Rev. Charles grow in ministry. I was hoping the next pastor would help us (me) grow in ministry and applying the word of God to my life. Does his dad's church have the same types of issues as we have here? Shilite 1:29 I disagree with you. I did not feel as you did regarding Rev. Charles. God bless you Shiloh in helping your new pastor to "GROW".
He has three children, let's not get carried away.
Make the process "look" complete? what does that mean? If they give us 3 names, the process is complete! We need the best candidate, and I have heard them all. I've been told by asking a committee member, not the W.W.W., that we will get the opportunity to view the sermons of the final 3, to jog our memories. Based on my memory, HB seems to have the best long-term future! But I reserve the right to use my vote as I see fit.
Last time I read my bible, Jesus said, "such is the Kingdom of heaven."
God has already provided the means for our healing, his name is Jesus. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, our comforter. If we depend on "man" to heal us, we will be disappointed time and time again. Our job is to heal each other with the aid of the Holy Spirit. Whom ever the Pastor is, I would not want to run to him and say, "heal me". He who began a good work in you will bring it to pass. Jesus called it "pruning", to grow more fruit, John 15. God works through our circumstances to reveal if we're trusting in the creator, or the creature. Man can't heal man, get to the creator. I'm using this to lean not to my own understanding. I was one who said if Pastor G ever left, I would go with him. God was jealous and showed me that I need to look to him, not any man! Praise God I have learned my lesson. If you are still needing a pastor to heal you, Jesus died in vain. I'm praying that the Holy Spirit will invade you heart and give you the healing you desire. We must study, pray, and fast to get closer to the source. It's all about Jesus. I'm a mere vessel.
Shilite July 10th 2:21pm. Making it "look" complete means you hear the church boss's preference preach at least 5 sermons.(2 Sunday services, 1 Wednesday). You heard the other candidates on 1 Sunday. You remember what you hear and see "live" several times, more than you remember what you have seen less of. Did I miss the names of the other candidates? We are still talking as if there was only one. A nice family does not "qualify" one to pastor Shiloh (DG had a nice family also). I bet they ALL have nice families.
Anon 2:01 You can goggle H.B. Charles name and get a feel for his father's church.
I thought this was a "lets stop darrel gilyard together" blog and not a blog to discuss the hiring of the next pastor at Shiloh...........DUH
Anyone ever wondered if the person blogging under the name of Shilite may be DG himself.....????....hmmmmm
Anon July 8, 2008 9:56 PM - Not there...
This is why we all have an opinion and the opportunity to vote July 30. Whether it is today or the 30th,my vote will be for HB. I was not as impressed with anyone else as I am with him. He new his sermon(he doesn't read like some others) which means to me he is extremely prepared. He knew scripture(other candidates didn't give as much) and he had the full attention of the crowd. Even DG never filled a Wednesday night service in that way. Most of you probably thought that DG was so anointed and look and what a con he turned out to be. Lean not on your own understanding but pray to GOD for HIS wisdom.
Also, the "church bosses" are not pushing HB on us. Shilites have been clamoring for this guy. people have been going to the search committee and others involved in this process telling them how excited they are about him. Don't blame the leadership, it is the congregation that has been pulling for HB hard!
Anon 11:18 AM: man looks at the outer appearance God looks at the heart. Only God knows the heart of these men. If you were so good at knowing who was anointed and who wasn't there is no way you would have been at Shiloh at all!
The true criteria for choosing a Pastor is not whether he moves your emotions or feelings.When one is seeking a new Church or a new Pastor,I qoute Dr.John MacAuthur Jr.,the most important characteristic is "How does he handle the WORD". True anointing is seen in a Pastor in how faithfully and rightfully he exposit's God's Word not in whether he reads or not reads his sermons.Some of the greatest preachers in America write out there entire sermons(John MacAuthur)for the purpose of being as accurate as possible to what the Holy Spirit revealed to them in their private Bible studies.I pray that Shiloh will choose not on appearence but on substance.If they get a Pastor that will teach them the truth and not what they want to hear,then you will see true life changes.I pray the best for them.
Pastor Rod allow me to clarify. I was in no way saying that whether someone reads or not means they should be a pastor or how good they are. Out of all the candidates, HB did the best job, in my opinion, of preaching the Word expositorily. Not many of the others did. Some of the others may have got the crowd going but when you where honest with yourself after service, how much did he point me to scripture?, what did I learn new or different from this sermon? and often times you can't answer any of those in the affirmative. I do however think it says alot about a pastors preparedness when he can effectively teach/preach by interacting and looking at his congregation the entire time instead of standing at the pulpit and reading his entire sermon, looking down at a piece of paper for 45 minutes! There is no perfect pastor, if so, name one. All we can do is ask God to reveal His choice. We can criticize these candidates but I would venture to say not many of us can do what they do. That is why we must pray; this position is a highly important one.
Ms J,
I left Shiloh too and my whole family. I have been looking for another home since the outbreak. This month, I think I found a place a new home for my husband and I.
I will never go back to Shiloh.
dfsa
To Anon 7:58 - "There is no perfect pastor." You are correct. HOWEVER, the Bible says every pastor ought to live a life that is above reproach.
I am quite in agreement with Pastor Rod about pastors who write out their sermons and then read them. Some of the best sermons I've heard were read from the pulpit.
Handling the Word (and knowing how to do that) requires training, i.e., seminary training.
It is equally important for a pastor to LIVE a godly life, as well as care for the flock. And, in my opinion, the Shiloh congregation is in need of great care, whether or not the congregants and/or church leaders recognize their need.
Holding the office of pastor, especially in a church where there has been a clergy abuse scandal, is not just about being a good expositor of the Word. After Katrina, people were more concerned with getting their lives back together than hearing someone eloquently preach/teach. Many have been spiritually hurt at Shiloh. Many have left. These hurt people need to get their spiritual lives back. That's the job of the new pastor, whoever he might be.
As far as we know this man has LIVED a Godly life. He has been interviewed, background checked and had surprise visit on his own turf and asked about in his own neighborhood. We trust that the search committee has done it's done and will present us with people who are blameless..
Again, maybe this is just my take on things, but when I listen to any pastor, presenter, etc I prefer that they engage their audience by looking at them and interacting continuously with them and not reading. That is just something I like, and I know an equal number of great pastors that minister in that way and not by reading. That would be something I look for.
Anon 12:21 am, you are cautioned not to be in a rush about this man and not in a rush period concerning the process of installation. I am curious about why Charles is leaving his present church or trying to leave it. Is it just that he's tired of being a "boy" preacher in the church he grew up in or could it be something more. The last thing any church needs is a runaway preacher like Gilyard was. It may be difficult to impossible to get answers about him from within his church since it is ingrained in church people not to speak or let others speak negatively about their pastor. But you can be sure there are those in Mt. Sinai Missionary Baptist Church that know about any negative misstep he has made but I doubt if Shiloh could get it out of them. One reason is they don't want to sabotage him and two, they may not want to be seen as having something in their own heart against him that wants to keep the "good pastor" from soaring. It can be hard to get at the truth. As those of us who attended Shiloh know, this church thing can be a motley mess. I'll be glad when I can say as anon 4:15pm did that I have found a new church home but right now I'm still doing the weekly search. From the outside looking in, it does seem like a little older more mature person would be a better choice, preferably someone not in the throes of raising young children and that's just my opinion anon 12:21 am. Wish all of you the best. Interesting to see who the choice will be. Shiloh isn't on my candidate list, I'm on my way to another church this morning and in time and through prayer me and my girls will find a "home" again. God bless.
Kay,
I am in no rush to install anyone. As a member of Shiloh, the vote is going on July 30 as planned unless something happens to stop it. I plan to vote because I won't be one of theose people who doesn't vote but then afterwards has all Kinds of negative things to say.
HB has his reasons for wanting to leave, but it has nothing to do with any scandal. I personally know people who have gone to his church in LA (a relative who is still in LA and another couple who now live here in Jax) and there is no scandal or anything like that following him.
Come on people, since when does God put an age limit on someone He wants to use! You Bible scholars! God can use whomever He wants; all he needs is a willing vessel, He will provide you with what you need to do the job! Did you forget about David, Joseph, Samuel? How do you know God hasn't been preparing HB since the age of 16 for 'such a time as this'!
So what he has 3 kids; that is why God has blessed him with a WIFE! He is not a single parent raising them alone. Hello! Preachers and their wives are known to have far more kids than that and that never stopped their ministries from going forth. Next!
Anon 3:52 pm Honestly, the way you stand up for him one wonders if he is paying you. Simply in general do you really feel that you can vouch for someone 100%. You must be awfully young or just...well, never mind. Human beings are capable of absolutely anything. Are you still slow learning that, even after what happened in your midst? Look at David if you need another reference! Let me tell you, I could be there right now waiting to vote like yourself but I COULDN'T stay there. And the HOLY SPIRIT persuaded me of that. And if you're wondering why I'm commenting about what you said, well, this is the "let's stop darrell gilyard together" blog. Perhaps Shiloh should start their own blog if they don't want others to make comments about it or, if that's the case don't even get on the web for that matter. It seemed to bother you anon I mean "Shilite".
Of course he's not paying me and since you're no longer there what diff does it make to you what we do?
You can't vouch for any person 100%. You can't vouvh for any pastor but that doesn't stop you from going to church, does it. You can't vouch for your husband(if you're married) but you did it any way. you can't vouch for the President but you plan to vote i hope. I have sense enought to know that but we still need a pastor. Do you think we should be pastorless until we can vouch for someone 100%, well then you and i both know we would never have one.
I trust GOD and that His Will shall be done despite what we think about it. I believe God always knew that one day DG would fall and Shiloh will need a pastor again. And He will provide for us.
David, by the way and unless I read my Bible wrong, but God himself said that he was 'A man after mine own heart'. God said it!
He knows we will fail and disappoint, but common sense should tell you that we All will do that, so I guess God just won't get anything done in this world, right? God can even use our sins and mistakes to get His glory!
So since you are looking for a new church, you keep looking until you can vouch for someone 100% and good luck with it. There is not a one out there who has not fallen short of the glory Of God. Scripture tells you that!
By the way, we all are entitled to our opinions. Others opinions are totally irrelevent to my life and Shiloh will roll on regardless. Do you really think God cares what any of us really think about this; He has a will that must be done and a church that needs a man of God stationed there. Our opinions won't change God.
Yep, it bothered you.
Nope, just couldn't believe how dumb your commments were.
Let's all wish and pray the best for Shiloh.
Please Listen to, "Getting Even, God's Way" July 13th HB Charles. Shilohmedia.com "sermons"
Genesis 50 Hurt and forgiveness.
Thanks Shilite for directing them to HB's sermon from Sunday about forgiveness. What a message! It's clear that some people are still holding on to the past when we at Shiloh are ready to move on into the blessings God has in store for us.
Don't get side tracked.
let's stop pastor darrell gilyard together
Frankly, I am not concerned about the everyday going on or whispers or what sermon or picks at former church building.
It's about a predator that concerns me.
let's stop pastor darrell gilyard together
dfsa
here here
rod h
stay focus:
let's stop pastor darrell gilyard together
It doesn't appear that anyone has any new info about DG. Each court date just continues to be passed. I don't know how many times that can be done until either you go to trial or some plea is made.
Does anyone know anything new?
Sept 9th, discovery begins...
Thanks for getting things back on track...stopping DG together.
Part of stopping DG is to understand how DG was allowed to operate (and how he continues to operate) in the ministry.
One of the ways perpetrators continue on in the church is by preaching that appears to be biblical, but--upon a closer study--is really false teaching. Congregants are persuaded to think in certain ways that "protect" the bad behaviors of clergy.
One such common teaching is on "forgiveness" no matter what...no matter if a clergy perpetrator is fully held accountable...no matter if anyone else is protected from the perpetrator...no matter if the victims get any justice...no matter if those injured are ministered to...no matter if the perpetrator truly repents (but then, how does a member of the clergy repent of the evil of sexual abuse?). That "no matter what" kind of forgiveness is nowhere to be found in the Bible, yet pastors preach it like it came from God Himself. A careful study of forgiveness in the Bible yields a completely different truth.
What alerts me is this new pastoral candidate at Shiloh preached on "forgiveness." I imagine he also preached on God's "grace," too. Of course, following the same pattern, it is grace without the full truth, without accountability or without any healing of those injured (including any congregant whose spiritual lives were injured). I imagine this pastoral candidate did not preach on acceptability and ministering to the victims, which would have been much more biblical and in line with the teachings of Jesus than blind/glib forgiveness and grace.
I did not hear the sermon on forgiveness, but am relying on the words of Anon 7-14, 4:08, "It's clear that some people are still holding on to the past when we at Shiloh are ready to move on into the blessings God has in store for us." As for Gen. 50 and "forgiveness," there is so much to say, and there is not enough space here! Joseph forgave his brothers AFTER MANY YEARS, and AFTER HIS BROTHERS REALIZED THEIR "EVIL" AGAINST JOSEPH. And...note in Gen 50:21, Joseph "comforted them and spoke kindly to them" AFTER THEY FULLY REPENTED. Joseph's relationship to his brothers was restored only after they humbled themselves. When did DG or the elders of Shiloh humble themselves before DG's victims?
Forgiveness has nothing to do with "holding on to the past"--it is about holding a wrongdoer accountable for the hurts and brokenness he caused. DG has yet to be held accountable in a court of law. How can anyone speak of forgiveness? It's this kind of "Christian gobble-dee-goop" that I refer to--false teaching. How does Anon 4:08 know for certain God is going to bless Shiloh? The leaders did not do the right thing with DG in the first place. What has changed since DG left? Are the members of Shiloh that ignorant to think God will bless a church whose leaders are in error?
I would encourage anyone interested in forgiveness and healing to read the article, "When Forgiveness Is Not the Issue in Forgiveness: Religious Complicity in Abuse and Privatized Forgiveness," by Margaret F. Arms, published in the Journal of Religion & Abuse, Vol. 4(4) 2002, (avail. from haworthpress_dot_com, or in the book, Forgiveness and Abuse, edited by M. Fortune and J. Marshall.
This article draws from the work of Desmond Tutu and Carter Heyward in dealing with the issues of the South African parliament to grant forgiveness to members of Apartheid, and how that specifically relates to cases of clergy sexual abuse--not just with the perpetrators and victims of clergy sexual abuse, but also with the churches involved.
It is very relevant, and important that "former" members of Shiloh who left because of scandals involving DG have a say as to what happens there. They have a right to talk about what happened. This is not "gossip" as Shiloh's leaders are trying to tell you. It's healthy talk so that everyone can understand what really happened, and so that healing can begin.
What a sad day it will be if this pastoral candidate is voted in...but in all reality, I fully expect that those left at Shiloh will be duped into voting for him (while blaming it on "God's will"). It's just that kind of man church leaders like--someone who can "smoothtalk" the congregation into just about anything. That's exactly what they did to get DG on board in the first place. Members beware.
Members of Shiloh, God will not prevent you from exercising your free will in choosing the wrong man. He will still love you, but He will not forbid you from making another mistake. As these pastoral candidates are presented, look for the man who is concerned about ministering to the flock, not putting a bandaid (i.e., "just forgive") on the gashes that DG left behind. You can be sure God's man won't have the "charisma" DG had. It will take more than fancy words to bring healing to Shiloh.
I'm with Rod H - I'm wishing and praying the best for Shiloh.
Kay, if Shiloh's leaders can't understand your wanting to find another church, and think that your membership at Shiloh means nothing to them, then it is well you left. They apparently weren't your shepherds in the first place. One can only hope they will someday see the error of their ways. Your honest candor is appreciated, and I will be praying the Lord leads you to the right church. May He bless your endeavors to serve Him.
Anon 1:27 am:
Are you suggesting we should stay pastorless for many years? You should refrain from making comments about HB sermon until you have heard it which you admitted you have not.
The reason it took Joseph many years was because he did not see his brothers for many years. But the interesting thing was despite that, GOD still had a plan for Joseph and it was taking place regardless of the evil that was done against him. God was still going to do His will despite what Joseph's brothers had done, hence "you meant it for evil, but GOD meant it for good. He brought me to this position so I could save many lives".Genesis 50:19-21
Your comment about forgiveness is incorrect Anon 1:27am. Forgiveness does not have to wait until the courts hold someone accountable, or the grudge has been repaid, etc. Is that how GOD forgives us? It is up to God to deal with DG as He sees fit. 'Vengence is mine says the Lord' and He can do a much better job at dealing with DG than any of us can. How do you know that DG has not asked for forgiveness and repented to GOD(although that will not take away any consequences from this)? We are not in his prayer life and relationship with GOD. How can you say that the leaders have not repented for their part in this mess? What makes you think that God can't or won't bless us to move forward with a great man of God and take Shiloh to great heights! Thank GOD! my life and future are not in the hands of man but the almighty GOD!
I don't know, maybe you have the mind of God and you know how he plans to move and what he plans to do. Can you say with all certainty that the next pastor is not God's will? None of what has happened has caught God by surprise. We have to pray for God's will just like you, and BELIEVE that He will guide and direct us to the right choice.
No one will be duped into voting for anyone. If anyone has a problem with the way things are being done, be man/woman enough to go to the church leaders and voice your opinion and thoughts! I have done it and was well received and got my questions answered.
Can any of you out there tells us with 100%certainty that you KNOW what GODS will and plan is for us?
You're absolutely right about forgiveness not having to wait. If a repentant sinner seeks forgiveness, then forgiveness is available. But true forgiveness always has to wait for a repentant heart. What took so long for Joseph to forgive his brothers did not rest with Joseph. It was waiting for Joseph's brothers to realize they were no longer in a position of power and authority over him. It was then they humbled themselves, proclaiming to Joseph they were his "servants." Then, and only then, was Joseph able to forgive them, which he did with great mercy. And thank God that Joseph was able to see all that God had planned, and that Joseph was elevated in the land of Egpyt so many would be saved. Only the Pharoah had more power and authority than Joseph.
Yes, God did work in the meantime. And I believe He is working now, doing a greater work than any of us can imagine.
But for Shiloh's congregation, the things to look for in a new leader are not the same qualities that DG had. DG did dupe the congregation. He was leading a life that was a lie--and there were leaders (not only at Shiloh, but in the SBC) who knew about it and did nothing. Apparently, from what we're able to ascertain there were many victims of DG at Shiloh, not to mention the many victims of DG prior to his coming to Shiloh. And beyond the victims, there are secondary victims, the family members of the victims, DG's family members, not to mention the spiritual abuse and confusion caused by what he did. That's a lot of hurt, and DG used Shiloh to hurt many. Hurt like that cannot be mended by a magic "forgiveness" wand. It will take many years to undo that kind of emotional and spiritual damage, that kind of evil.
As for God's will...God always desires for humans to choose a wise path, rather than the path of a fool (cf. Prov. 1:20; etc.). Joseph's brothers were foolish, and in the end, they paid homage to the one they had abused. Living a godly life is not about "sinning" (actually, doing evil--and there's a difference). It's about living a godly life in the open before everyone. If DG has confessed to God, then he also has to confess to the congregation at Shiloh--fully confess, not whitewash his actions. If the elders of Shiloh--who turned a blind eye to the many victims of DG who came to them with complaints--if they have confessed before God, then they need to confess to the congregation and ask to be forgiven. They have lost their authority as elders and ought to be removed. Then, and only then, can any at Shiloh forgive them. If they were truly living godly lives, they would be moved by the Holy Spirit to do that.
It behooves thinking individuals to seek wisdom in looking for a new leader. That's basically what I'm saying. Shiloh was apparently foolish to hire DG. Shiloh does't need to be made a fool again.
To God, the sheep are more important than shepherds. Read Ezekiel 34.
I'm sorry but there were so many crazy statements made that i have to keep responding. HB sermon had nothing to do with DG. He was preaching about Joseph.
If people need healing they need to go to THE HEALER. No pastor has the responsibilty to heal anyone; his job will be to preach the word of God and when you hear the word, pray to GOD and apply it to your life, you will be healed. Stop placing responsibilites on pastors that are truly meant for God himself.
Anon 10:28 am.
I know that we have been praying for Gods spiritual wisdom and discernment in this situation; we have done it collectively as a church and many do it individually. I am believing that God will hear and answer us. We are most definitely not looking for another DG. The next pastor should be able to preach and teach expositorily but also have the moral standards and integrity to be a pastor. We have not overlooked that fact at all.
We will have 3 to choose from; they have been investigated and background checked. Anyone, with any kind of blip on the screen, did not make it to the final 3. We trust that we have been presented with 3 blameless(not perfect) candidates; they don't appear to have any sort of behaviors that were exhibited in DG or any other things that would disqualify them.
We ask that you pray for us. Have any of us always made the right decisions 100% of the time. that is why we lean on God. We are doing the best we can to choose God's man to move forward, we can't shut the doors to church because of past mistakes. God is still able to use us and get Glory!
But, don't we wish we could just, "hang him a little", to teach him a lesson, a story told about President Lincoln in the sermon on Joseph Sunday. I'm sensing we believe forgiveness/healing can only come when the sinner/perpetrator asks "us", the offended, for forgiveness. Joseph replied to his brothers who wronged him, "Am I in the place of God?" I believe he was speaking from a point of deep spiritual growth, which we have yet to understand. Jesus told the group to start stoning the woman "caught" in sin.... they dropped their stones. Doesn't say they forgave her. Doesn't say she asked for forgivness. What do we think? Did it matter to Jesus if the "offended" crowd forgave the woman? They had "issues" they needed to take to Jesus, not to the woman.
Now we should understand why we "were" there when they crucified MY Lord! Oh, it makes me want to tremble, when we act like the religious leaders who said "give us Barrabas". No need to quote religious leaders, if they are not using the principles of Jesus. I've dropped my rock, healed by the power of the blood. "you meant it for bad, BUT GOD, meant it for good. God's "mint" is always bigger than Satan's "mint"!
Lord, forgive us, when we want our vengance, instead of growing the spiritual fruit of long-suffering.
No one intends to put anyone at Shiloh on the defensive. That's not the intent here. No one expects the new pastor to "heal" anyone. However, a new pastor should be sensitive, not only to Shiloh "moving forward" but also to those who have been hurt. If one part of the body is wounded, then the whole body is affected.
I'm certain Shiloh's leaders are concerned about those DG hurt, and are working diligently to care for those who have been hurt, just as the Good Samaritan took care of the man who was robbed and beaten.
I aplogize if comments made were taken the wrong way.
May the Lord bless Shiloh and its endeavors to bring glory to Him.
<
July 17, 2008 10:28 AM It is so comforting to know that you are all-wise, all-knowing, and have the answers for Shiloh; "don't hire the pastor"; "fire the leaders"; bring the repentant rabble before the congregation to confess their trangressions. With you on the job maybe the Lord can take some time off!
To Anon 10:32 - regarding your comment, "HB sermon had nothing to do with DG. He was preaching about Joseph." Perhaps you should tell Anon 4:08 (7-14) that the sermon on forgiveness had nothing to do with DG. He stated, "…HB's sermon from Sunday about forgiveness. What a message! It's clear that some people [former members of Shiloh who left after DG scandal] are still holding on to the past…" Maybe you weren't listening to the sermon as well as Anon 4:08, or perhaps Anon 4:08 has come to his own conclusions.
Has anyone noted that neither DG or the last preacher we heard has had any academic credentials published on their resumes? I recognize the purpose of this blog is to stop DG but I am concerned as a member of Shiloh that if we do not examine closely the mechanism that has been put into place to facilitate this election, we may be doomed to repeat the same mistake. If we are to have three candidates to choose from, when are the others returning to Shiloh? Or are they? One thing that troubles me with DG is the question of who (in our church leadership) knew what and when? And are those same people manipulating this process by not allowing the others to return before we vote?
The problem with DG had nothing to do with his education. He was very versed in the Word and delivered it eloquently. The problem was with his heart. There is no way to verify what's in a man's heart. Allow God to move in this situation and stop playing God.
Inquiring about credentials is not playing God. Doctors have credentials, nurses have credentials, teachers have credentials, physical therapists have credentials, and lawyers have credentials. Ministry is both a calling and a profession. Don't you have credentials in your profession? It was an honest inquiry. How can we promote education to our youth, and young adults, while disregarding it for our ministers?
Many churches will not even consider a minister without a college degree. Jesus said, "thou shall love the Lord thy God, with all thine heart, soul, strength, and with all thy MIND". Sorry if that offends you.
Anon 4:56p, I'm not offended at all. However, you took my comment out of context. My point was that although credentials are very important but they do not determine whether or not a man will be a good pastor. Our next pastor should have a heart for Jesus.....as well as credentials. For the record, one of our candidates has been a pastor for 16 years. How is that for credentials? There is alot to be said about job experience.
anon July 17, 2008 2:12 PM and anon July 17, 2008 4:56 PM Where did scripture specify "degree required?" What degree did D. L. Moody, one of the greatest evangelists of the 19th century hold? How about Charles Haddon Spurgeon who founded a college and whose sermons are still studied by modern preachers today? Pastoring is a calling. It is too bad that many men have entered into it as a vocation. A degree does not qualify one to be a pastor anymore than possessing a firearm qualifies one as an expert marksman. Jesus chose the most unlikely men to carry on His work on earth. If His choices were credential-based I doubt any of them would have qualified. God chooses His pastors (read Jeremiah 3:15). Any other way is based on the "traditions of men", not the Word of God.
DG's next court date is Sept 3rd not Sept 9th.
How can one teach unless he himself has been taught? A seminary education is invaluable for a called man of God to rightly discern the Word of God. How can an ill-equipped man differentiate between Greek words with completely different meanings, but which share the same English translation? For example, there are 3 different Greek words translated "forgive" in English: aphiemi, charizomai, and apoluo. Each has a different meaning and application. I've heard many preachers confuse the meanings of the Greek words translated "forgive." How can you distinguish the meanings of words in the Bible without an education in Greek? That's just one small aspect of a seminary education. There is much more to learn, especially in today's complex society. I would be leary of a man who did not have proper credentials.
That is not to say someone without a seminary education isn't a good Christian. It is to say if a man is called to be a pastor, he should get some education to back up his calling. And if a congregation is so convinced of a man's calling, then the congregation ought to see to it (i.e., pay for) his seminary education. To quote Paul, who commissioned Timothy, "A bishop then must be blameless...not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil" (I Tim 3:2,6). The apostle Paul himself was an educated man.
And yet, I also know of seminary educated men who were guilty of the same things DG is accused. Credentials without a pure heart are worthless in the church.
Wow...this is an intersting blogsite. I thought that it was about Gilyard, but soon realized that it is a collection of thoughts and ideas, both positive and negative on Shiloh as a whole.
As we all know, Shiloh is a very large church (over 7000 members). With that large church comes MANY opinions about what should be done, who should do it, why Gilyard was allowed free rein to terrorize the church for fourteen years, whether or not the new candidate(s) will be effective, etc. We realize that no matter what is done at Shiloh, with Gilyard, or even with the Presidential election (as that has been mentioned here as well), NOT EVERYONE WILL BE HAPPY. You cannot please everyone, no matter how honorable (or dishonest), how noble (or tricky), or how Christ-centered (or self-motivated) your intentions may be. God's will WILL be done.
However, man DOES have to ALLOW God to work in their lives. He won't force himself onto us. As leaders, as members, as former members, and as on-lookers watching the process, we MUST stay prayerful, be vigilant, and DO (not talk about) what we can do to make sure that GOD is allowed free-reign over all of these situations. Pray for the leadership, pray for God's man, and yes- pray for Gilyard and for the families he has affected by his transgressions.
It is good for people to "vent" and express their feelings. With the advent of modern technology, we can do that anonomously, without fear of reprisals. So keep on "blogging", but after (or preferably before) you log off- pray, seek God's face...then will you hear from heaven.
There is no argument against education and training in the Ministry or any other field of endeavor.
The emphasis in the earlier post was on "degreed", not "trained". DG was "trained" but not "degreed". The candidate referred has seminary training but no "degree". The poster also likely has no knowledge of what the candidate has been doing to further his education over the years since he has been pastoring, or what his educational plans are for the future.
More books have been written on the Bible than any other subject. Bible Greek and Hebrew language "helps" are widely available to all who desire to do language and word studies. Exegesis of a text can be learned by anyone with the aptitude and desire to apply themselves. Consider the previous the examples of giants in the Pastorate who were not seminarians. Billy Graham's degree was in Anthropology yet he is considered the most effective evangelist of the modern age.
The first requirement for any pastor is that the heart must be right. On this issue there is no disagreement.
One of the concerns raised about Shiloh is the response (or lack thereof) of Shiloh's leaders to DG. Some feel they did not do enough to prevent him from harming people at Shiloh. One report was that the parents of at least one of the teens went to DG to complain about his behavior, then went to the church leadership and were basically turned away...and then they went to the police. The parents were apprently following Matthew 18:15-17. The elders should have sided with the victims, not the perpetrator. How is it that the secular police have more sense than the church leaders?
Have these elders been brought into account? Perhaps they just didn't understand their moral and biblical responsibility as leaders of a church. What has Shiloh done, i.e., policy changes, to assure congregants that if they come to the leaders with similar concerns they will be taken seriously? Or, are they waiting for the outcome of DG's trial--which could a few more years--to change the way they do things.
Perhaps this is why there is discord, why people have left Shiloh, why there is a distrust among congregants, why people are questioning the pastoral candidates.
It's very hard to trust church leaders again when there is a clergy sexual abuse scandal.
We need to keep Shiloh in our prayers.
To Anonymous 9:14am- Yes, there are books that are available to help ANYONE. However, since Shiloh is such a large church and has many degreed members, I'm sure that they would like to know that their leader has taken the time necessary to hone his craft as they did for theirs. Anyone can read a book about how to do surgery, but would that be all that is necessary to allow that person to operate on you?
Also, if the pastor if not degreed, he should not expect to make a six-figure salary on day one. While I agree that education alone is not enough, a person should be paid based on his education and experience. Just because Shiloh is a mega-church, it is not an automatic that they should pay their leader(s) an exorbitant salary.
On the topic of other ministers returning to preach and the return of only one candidate, there is often much more to a story than what meets the eye. Who's to say that these other candidates are still interested in the position, have the time in their schedules to make a return visit, or are even still eligible for the post? If the process is as rigorous as previously mentioned on this site, they may have fallen short of the necessary requiremtns. If the leadership is doing their due diligence THIS TIME, who knows what they may have found out about any of the candidates?
Tiffany, it seems as though this site is no longer serving the purpose for which it was created. Don't you think enough damage has been done here? Shut it Down!!!!
Tiffany do not shut this site down,it's healthy to discuss various matters not only pertaining to DG but also other topics involving theology,pastor qualifications,the church,etc.I am personnaly enjoying these discussion.Believe me we are going too have ample opportunity to discus Darrell.
Shut it down? If people speak their minds and it hits a nerve, do we shut it down or do we re-read the entry that caused the outcry?
This ia precisely why I left Shiloh anon 10:13am.
Anon 10:13, the questions you raised in your post are the reason I left Shiloh. (To be clearer.)
All this blog has done is given carnal-minded people something to gossip about. I'm sure some of you do enjoy reading mess. That's exactly what this is....mess!!!
This site isn't about preventing abuse in the Church. It's about what's going on at Shiloh. While all of you self-righteous hypocrites are gossiping about what you think and what you have heard is going on at Shiloh....I'm sure there are quite a few things you can be working on to strengthen YOUR walk with Christ. Instead og blogging...read your Bible.....talk to your children...read a book!!! Get a life!!!
To anon 7/17/2008 8:08pm.
C.H. Spurgeon started The Pastor's College in 1856 to educate preachers. His college aimed to train preachers, rather than scholars. The college held to a doctrine of grace and the Orthodox faith tradition. Spurgeon had 300 students in the Baptist denomination. He had a 12,000 book (personal) library and was an avid reader. Spurgeon also knew Hebrew and Greek.
Moody started a school to EDUCATE people/preachers. The D.L. Moody Bible Institute in Chicago is yet functioning quite well today. Both Spurgeon and Moody clearly endorsed the need for Ministerial training, and provided for its continuance.
If you agree that Spurgeon and Moody are noteworthy, perhaps you'll agree that they are worth STUDYING. Before you condemn seminaries, see what they have to offer.
In today's world, you need education. My inquiry was about a degree in ANYTHING, not specifically THEOLOGY. As a matter of fact, a Bachelor's degree IS a pre-requisite to a Master of Divinity, the basic ministry degree. Pastoring is more than just preaching.
We have a psychiatrist/trustee/deacon on staff to help us with counseling. That is an acknowledgemnet by this church of the need for formal training in counseling.
Should a pastor have formal training in counseling? Nevermind.
There is Bereavement Care and counseling: marriage and family counseling; crisis intervention; care of the dying and their families; sick visitation; church administration; budgeting-----so many demands on a preacher's time.
Elijah was called the 'Dean of the school of the prophets'. The Apostle Paul studied under the tutelage of Gamaliel. He was used of God as apostle to the Gentiles specifically because he was Multi-lingual (educated).
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God; a workman that needeth not be ashamed, righty dividing the word of truth."
Jesus did not call Peter, James, and John in the 21st century. This IS the 21st century. Since the Wright Brothers, we have studied Aviation. Since Henry Ford, we have studied the automobile. Since Charles Drew, since Christian Bernard----you get the point.
Anon 2:55 If people don't talk about this "mess" (as you say it) this kind of thing will continue to go on in churches. Silence is a vehicle used by perpetrators. People should be aware of church issues and talk about them. I'm sorry if it causes you shame in the process or feels like your dirty laundry is hanging out. This site has been a teaching tool for many as to the operations of churches and how widespread clergy abuse is.
Anon 7/18/2008 11:40 am.
If 3 applicants qualify as finalists, then 3 applicants meet the qualifications. Out of 156 resumes, there can't be only one preacher with a clean background. The others are not coming because nobody's trying to persuade you to vote for them. How can anyone be elected as our pastor, who can't even come and speak before us a second time? If the other 2 candidates were sexual predators, or had a criminal background, why would they be finalists?
Who are the other two candidates?
When there is clergy sexual abuse, there is always a "mess."
Traditionally and historically, the way church leaders have handled the "mess" is to simply cover it up, move the pastor on to another church without fully holding him accountable, silence the victims through whatever means they can, including "guilt-tripping" the victims into "forgiving" the pastor, or even worse, forcing the victim to ask the pastor and congregation to forgive her. Usually, the victim and her family are no longer welcome at the church. She is ostracized.
It's a "glossing over" that leaves many in a spiritual quandary-like quagmire.
This case involving Shiloh and DG is important for at least a couple of reasons: (1) the police were called in and arrested DG so there can be a fair trial; (2) because of the courage of Tiffany, it has been brought out that many women have allegedly been previously victimized by DG as well as the teens. Apprently women have been complaining about DG for many years, but church officials have simply done what they usually do. IF he is found guilty in a court of law, then this case will prove that the "solutions" to all of the previous allegations against him (i.e., allowing him to just move on to another congregation without real accountability) did not work.
Perhaps it will send a message to church officials who seem to be very reluctant to understand the truth about clergy sexual abuse. Go to StopBaptistPredators.org for more information about the SBC's recent decisions to have a "hands off" policy regarding clergy sexual abuse cases as one example.
Tiffany, this blog is especially important because it allows folks to talk openly about how clergy abuse has affected them, how they feel about following church leaders who are so quickly trying to "move on" as if everything has been taken care of, and "all is well."
The truth is, all is not well at Shiloh. Several members have left, not because they moved away, or for some other happy reason. They've left because of unbelievable events that took place at "their" church, and the church leaders seem to be trying to pretend it's no big deal. What happened is a big deal. And those who have left should be important to the church leaders.
The questions of credibility of the pastoral candidates are valid. I'm sure the Search Committee is doing the best they can, but they need to realize the decisions of the "church bosses" will especially come under intense scrutiny by congregants--which is good.
anon July 18, 2008 3:14 PM
I got your point but you seem to have missed mine completely.
To Anon: July 18,2008 12:30 PM AND 2:55 PM
You call us self righteous hypocrites? Since you are so offended by this blog, what are YOU doing here? The World Wide Web is just that, WIDE. There are plenty of other sites you can explore. Or, maybe you should take your own advise and go read YOUR bible, talk to YOUR child, read a book and stop wasting YOUR time by blogging on this site!
The problem with Anon 2:55 is that he hasn't been reading this blog with understanding--he's been reacting to it.
Many church leaders where clergy sexual abuse happens do the same. THEY decide that church members--and especially the victims--ought to remain SILENT about the mess they've created (by not properly holding the pastor perpetrator accountable). They label people "gossipers" who are merely trying to understand how a church pastor could do such terrible things in their church.
Name calling won't stop people from talking about what happened. PRAISE GOD for this technology that allows people from all over the world to discuss what happened at Shiloh. It's about time people understand the truth about clergy sexual abuse so that pastor perpetrators in the church are stopped.
And hence, this entire blog--everything about Shiloh, DG, and even First Timothy--is contributing to stopping DG...and we're doing it together.
anon July 18, 2008 8:31pm
They are apparently designed to be irrelevant to the election process. You are not supposed to vote for them anyway.
HB seems to be getting all the love, who ARE these other 2 candidates??
I'm a member and I have asked for HB to return and so have many others. We sold so many of his CDs and tapes of all of his sermons while here. That spoke volumes. The others were good but something was missing. Like someone quoted earlier, NOT ALL will be happy about who is selected. I have asked God who I should vote for. The others pastors sermons will play on the big screen to recall their sermon. Its not that hard to decide when being led by the Spirit.
DG has his day coming. I feel for his wife. She has got to be hurting as well as her parents. DG has not changed, he is still bragging baout its no big deal about what is being said. I guess he feels Hank Cox is God over the legal system. Cox is goo but God is in charge of Cox, regardless of what it looks like. I know the families involved and at first they did not want to say anything against DG but after the evidence presented itself clear and factual, there were no other choice but to expose DG's wrong doings. Other families were afraid to come forward, fearing for the loss of their home, income and daughters reputation. He should not be let off but only God knows the outcome.
I agree with you Anon 4:56 pm.
The other 2 were good but something was missing. I don't want to use names in the event that I am wrong about who the other 2 will be. One was good but I did not feel he preached expositorily; the 2nd in my opinion had way too many characteristics that i don't want to see my pastor have(I'll leave it at that). Out of the choices we have been given I believe HB is the best choice.
I see that may people are upset that the other candidates may not return before the 30th. All we are basically judging at this point are the preaching abilities. the search committees and others, are the ones who have done the hard work, the interviews and asked the hard questions. Based on these they have presented us with what they feel is best. So all you can vote on is the preaching style of eachwhich you will get to see again before voting
Can anyone say why his wife will choose to stay married to a man like that? I can't imagine having to live with a man that acts like that. It makes me wonder about her mental state; not to say she is crazy, but maybe so emotionally abused over the years she feels she can't get out. Or is she one oth those wives that feels that "no matter what" I have to stay with him because he's my husband and it's what God would want. Sometimes the church can beat women over the head and make them feel they can't leave no matter how bad it gets.
Any pastors out there? It seems to me if this were a teacher, or principal, coach, neighbor, etc we all would be in an outrage over DG behavior. but since he is a pastor it's almost as if no one wants to really condemn him. This has not only been seen at Shiloh but other well known cases at other churches. Why is this?
I don't know about anyone else, but I do feel outrage about this case and other cases where Pastors have sinned mightly, yet continue to preach, and people have allowed it to happen. Churches are putting up with it, and it's a disgrace to the body of Christ! I've read alot on this blog about leaving it in Gods hands and letting Gods will be done. We all want God's will, but here are His requirements:
2 Chronicles 7:14
"If My people, who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, THEN I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and Heal their land".
First, you have to truly belong to Him through repentance, faith, and a new birth lead by the Holy Spririt. We can't continue to live the same old way. It's not just saying "I'm sorry, God", but Godly repentance requires turning away from the sin. As we grow, we should be sinning less.
Second, He said we need to Humble ourselves before Him - get rid of pride in our lives.
Third, Pray
Fourth, Earnestly seek Him
Fifth, Turn from their wicked ways. (This is self explanatory)
Sixth, THEN, we will hear from Him
My point is, I'm sure people were praying back in 1993 or 1994. DG was hired inspite of the prayers. We now know that the leadership at Shiloh was faulty. If they had followed the Lord's instructions, they wouldn't be in this mess today. They would have had enough discernment to know that he should not be the Pastor.
God said His people perish due to lack of knowledge. When I attended Shiloh, something that I feel wasn't being taught was repentance. It was mostly about what God would do for us, but not much about true repentance. Now, I know why. The Pastor hadn't repented. If the leadership of Shiloh does not have their hearts right with God, Lord help Shiloh again! Let's pray they do!!
Ms. J.
I'm with you, Ms. J! The leadership of Shiloh needs to get their hearts right before they ask God for a new pastor. Repent is a word I haven't heard spoken from a pulpit in a long time either. Used to be a common word in my dad's Baptist church.
If Shiloh's leaders have repented, they need to express that to the congregation; not just with words, but with their actions. By their fruits we will know.
Personally, I don't feel that HB is the right man for the job. If he were, then there wouldn't be such a commotion. He's obviously the choice of the "church bosses" and the Search Committee, but I don't feel he's God's choice. Just about anyone could preach an expository sermon. That doesn't mean he's necessarily right for the job.
If he were God's choice, his selection would be going a lot smoother. And if he's voted in, I don't feel his term as pastor of Shiloh will be long term. He doesn't seem to understand the issue of clergy sexual abuse at all--if he did he would never have given a sermon on "forgiveness" (and used Gen. 50 as his text!). That was so insensitive and uncaring of those who were hurt by DG. His choice to do a sermon on forgiveness gives me all the more reason to believe HB is NOT God's choice to bring Shiloh to where it needs to go. He is in denial of the events that have taken place, and seems to be encouraging the congregation to just deny what happened.
I need to ask, have any of the church leaders who erred by not checking out DG's past before calling him to Shiloh, or taking the allegations against DG seriously repented? Does anyone know for certain that they have repented? If they have, then it would sure help to know because right now their credibility is not what it used to be.
Anon 1:47am: Are you kidding me! Do you think that because HB preached about forgiveness, the only thing he could possibly be talking about was DG. I was there and he never said any of that stuff he was coming from Genesis and preaching about Joseph not DG. Isn't forgiveness for all of us in all areas of our lives; marriages, parents/children, why are you thinking so narrowly as to think that the only thing that forgiveness applies to is DG and he had to be talking about him.
I don't want to be late for work, I'll be back! But do you think that if God is involved that means thing s have to run smoothly. You need to go back and read your Bible and look at the problems that people who were chosen by God had to go thru while God was using them. That is so not Biblical!
Anon 7:28 - It's a timing thing... and follows the patterns of many churches where a clergy sexual abuse scandal has taken place; where church leaders try to deny the seriousness of what happened, minimize the real damage that occurred (spiritual and otherwise), and keep people ignorant of the events that happened. This is called collusion.
Let me explain again. When a clergy abuse scandal happens in a church, the church leaders will typically try to cover up what happened, or if they can't, then they will let the paster perpetrator go, basically ostracize the victim(s), and then try to do the best "damage control" they can. The church leaders will order people to "not gossip" about what happened, and just keep silent!
Part of "damage control" often times includes sermons on "forgiveness" and "grace," especially by outside preachers--making it appear this is just a "coincidental" message from God.
So, it's the timing and pattern here that gives me suspicion. That's all.
Of course, if you don't understand clergy sexual abuse, then you probably can't see the pattern or the relevance of the timing.
As for things going smoothly, my experience in the Christian life has been that when God is involved, not only do things go smoothly, but many are blessed.
The Lord wants us to trust in Him, not in our own devices.
I've also learned that to see God's involvement takes great patience. It's hard to wait for the Lord, but I've learned that His timing is better than mine. Hurrying things along usually backfires.
It is also interesting that you are sidestepping my question as to whether the erring church leaders at Shiloh have repented or not.
I personally do not attend Shiloh at this time, and I still want to know. We are all members of the church universal, and Shiloh's leaders represent my Lord as much as I do.
Aren't there thinking members and attenders of Shiloh who want to know if their church leaders are right with God? If not, then the congregation of Shiloh is at risk for another scandal.
Have the church leaders "humbled themselves"? Have they repented for getting Shiloh into the "mess" by not holding DG accountable for his actions prior to his arrest?
If the church leaders have repented, then shouldn't they convince others that they have in order to restore the trust of the people?
If they haven't repented, then any attempts by them to bless Shiloh with a new pastor at this time will fall short of God's full blessings.
I disagree that when God is involved things always go smoothly. Often times that is when you get the most opposition. i think of great men in the BIble and they all faced opposition/problems at one time or another in their ministries. The greatest of all was Jesus himself; he surely was chosen by God and was the ONLY ONE qualified for the job but things sure didn't go smoothly for HIM although they did go according to plan.
I believe that the leaders have repented and are trying to do a much better job this time around. But honestly, the only person to know if someone has truly repented is the Lord himself. I know that they are not ignoring things like they did with DG; if anything was inappropriate or caused concern about a candidate, they were not chosen to make the final voting process.
I, along with MANY, others have been praying for God to make our choice plain and clear so that there is no doubt and I believe he is doing just that.
Anon 6:39 - Are you saying Jesus faced opposition of which he had no control? The example of Jesus proves that waiting for God's clear direction and timing work.
Jesus' opposition didn't come from the masses, the people in the pews. Interestingly, His opposition came from the Pharisees--the religious leaders. The people were, for the most part, with Him in his earthly ministry. To that end, His ministry did go smoothly. He "had a handle" on the opposition of the religious leaders which perplexed them and made them angry toward Him, ultimately leading to His death and resurrection. He knew exactly what He was doing in trusting His Father. Jesus didn't try to circumvent God's authority over Him. He could have tried to hurry the Kingship process when Satan tempted Him, but He chose to wait for His Father's direction. He was without sin. He and the Father were (and still are today) one.
Anon 6:39 - It gives me a little more assurance that you THINK the elders have repented, and that you KNOW they are trying to do a better job this time around. Did they make a public statement to that end? If they have, then please accept my apologies for my lack of knowledge.
This is a credibility issue with the Shiloh leaders which seems to be seeping in and out of this blog; hence, my inquiry as to their condition of heart.
If I repented of a sin that I committed 2 weeks ago would you automatically believe me since i did it publicly; would you know the condition of my heart? You will probably say you don't know me , well you don't know them either. How many times have we gone to God and asked for forgiveness and "repented" and often times gone right back and done the same thing again. Don't lie and say you never have! That is why I am praying to God who i know I can trust above all others. There is not a man on this earth that you can put your complete trust in, the Bible tells us that, that's why we must call on Him.
If you are so convinced that our candidates are the wrong choice, and God is not directing us, PROVE IT with SOUND DOCTRINE!
Anon 5:05pm: A hearty amen!
I believe that if the leaders have repented they should say so in front of the congregation that they were wrong and made TERRIBLE, hurtful mistakes. They do owe an apology to congregants of Shiloh and I would think they would want to humble themselves and purge their hearts of their wrongs. My heart and soul still hurts when I think of how they put the flock at risk. They let Darrell Gilyard squeak by and continue his evil laciviousness for years and they knew about it. It took so-called "worldly" police officers to do what "spiritual" (there's a joke) people should have done. They should have reported him themselves. Does anyone else feel this way? Did DG have something on you leaders? You were stuck couldn't run for help, to the detriment of Gilyard's victims. Do you think this is not a big deal??? This is a big deal with God, watch. Until these many individual leaders come forward publicly with a contrite heart-Shiloh still precarious.. I know there are many there who are prideful and that's the problem.
While some self-appointed "heart monitors" are so busy trying to get others to repent and confess you might want to take a look at you own heart and your own advice. Your hearts seem to be filled with a lot of bitterness and anger towards the Shiloh "leaders". Do you know who they are? Do you know just who was involved in the hiring or any of the "cover-ups" you write so often about? Do you know anything other than what you "heard?". John 8:7 ...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone...
Anon 9:17 - If you are going right back at doing the same thing again for which you "repented," then you never repented in the first place. Repentance is "turning away" from sin, not returning to the sin again and again!
Anything short of a public repentance by the leaders of Shiloh is not repentance. They have a fiduciary duty to protect the congregation--i.e., all the people of Shiloh Baptist, including all the women and children. They obviously didn't do that.
The Shiloh leaders are not under the same mandates as lay people. They are to be "above reproach." Do you want Scripture? Then read what has been previously referenced on this blog many, many times. I'm tired of seeing the same verses repeated over and over.
If Shiloh's leaders are so "human" as to continue to live in sin, then they should never have been appointed as elders.
I suppose I can surmise by the latest responses, Shiloh's leaders have not repented publicly.
That would explain why you and others are trying to side step the issues.
I agree with Anon 9:19. This is a very big deal, one the leaders at Shiloh dare not disregard. God is bigger than your pride, and is not to be mocked.
DG's problems didn't start at Shiloh. There were many in the Southern Baptist Convention--men previously named on this blog site--who knew DG was not a man of God because of the way he was "handling" women at the Bible college, and in several churches before coming to Shiloh.
I am calling on the leaders of Shiloh Baptist, along with the leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention to humble themselves, learn about clergy sexual abuse, and repent of their indifference to the suffering of the victims and their families. Why? Because if they don't repent, God Himself will intervene. It makes me shudder to think of the consequences that will come if our church leaders do not repent publicly.
I am reminded of a controversial sermon I read in high school by Jonathan Edwards: "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God." Jonathan Edwards was speaking to normal lay folk. Just think how angry God will become if the church leaders do not repent.
Anon 11:40 - No, there is no bitterness or anger...only a desire to see errant leaders held accountable. There is nothing wrong that. The apostle Paul commands that church elders be held to account for their actions. You seriously aren't suggesting we abandon Paul's mandates? Oh, and, again, just in case you don't know, Paul's mandates concerning church leaders come from the Bible. The verses are I Tim 5:19,20. Oh, and just in case you try to suggest that there aren't any "witnesses" ("credible" or otherwise), then try to explain how no one in the congregation has heard a public confession of the elders' error(s) in dealing with DG through the years. It seems there are plenty of witnesses to the fact that Shiloh's leaders have simply had a lapse of judgment, care and concern for any of the victims in this situation.
And that being the case, there is a lack of trust of the elders in choosing a new pastor to lead Shiloh. That's all. How is it that anyone can really trust men who are so proud they can't publicly confess to the congregation their error? If they did, then--and only then--could they receive any grace and forgiveness from the congregation, and a restored trust in their leadership.
How can you guarantee that anyone is right with God? We know what we can see with our limited vision but God alone knows the heart. Are you telling me that you can tell every person that is right with God and every person who is not. Don't be deceived! Shiloh is in the spotlight right now because of all that has been exposed, but do you think we are the only ones? This kind of stuff is going on in many churches in this city, probably in your church. I know many pastors leading churches with women on the side, children on the side, taking money, etc. and scores of us are sitting in the pews saying our amens! Why don't they know, why can't they see all and tell all like you can? Again only God knows the true heart of a person! many a person has been fooled by people they thought they knew so well, but people can fool you, that's why you trust God! I can't say that enough!!
I am not looking at our leadership with a microscope trying to find everything wrong before I pray to God for a new pastor. Doesn't scripture tell you us to pull the planks out of our own eye before we go worrying about the speck in someone else. Should we sit on our hands and say, until every single person in this church is satisfied that everyone has repented and right with God we just won't do anything. Well you know that is impossible just from this blog. No way you can satisfy everyone.
I personally called the leadership and asked for a meeting concerning these problems. they met with me swiftly and allowed me to ask all the questions I wanted. I feel they answered honestly and didn't make excuses; a few told me directly that they had to repent to God. They also had various people there who were able to cover things that they were trying to get things right and back on track and the changes that would be made. Now, out of 7,000 give or take members, do you know only 20 or see people have requested to talk to the leadership and ask questions to hold them accountable. Yet, so many people have so much to say. If you are so concerned shy not ask to meet with them, they are there to serve the church in any capacity. So I personally don't want to hear all these gripes if on 20 people are willing to make a stand!
I'm tired of hearing you say over and over, how can you trust man? You can't and scripture tells you that; who can know the depths of wickedness in the heart? You can't even vouch for yourself what you will and won't do. Again my eyes are not on man, my eyes are on God! He is the ONLY ONE who will not fail you! That's why people get all crazy when pastors and the like get caught in junk like it can't possibly happen to them. We ALL are guilty of it; know matter how good you try to be, WE ALL come short of the glory of God. After all, that's why we have Jesus!
Anon 12:12 - You say you "know many pastors leading churches with women on the side, children on the side, taking money..." and you haven't done anything about it?
What kind of Christian are you to stand idly by? Don't you know what the Lord Jesus requires of believers when they encounter frauds in the ministry? Are you so blind?
This isn't about trying to take the speck out of someone else's eye. That verse is reserved for people on the same plane...i.e., not lay people with more powerful church leaders. Church leaders have a greater responsibility, and thus are to be scrutinized. The issues here are about holding men who are supposed to be "above reproach" accountable.
Apparently, your way of holding these wolves in sheep's clothing accountable is to stand by and watch. I suppose you'd do the same if the victims were your wife or your daughters. God help them.
What a shame that you had to make an appointment to speak to Shiloh's leaders about the errors they made in regard to DG. I bet you think you're pretty "special" for them to give you audience.
Giving private individuals an audience is not what the apostle Paul requires. Paul says Shiloh's leaders should stand before the congregation and confess, not hide in the church office like cowards.
Again, you are trying to circumvent the real issues by accusing those on this blog with real questions and concerns.
I'm pretty satisfied that Shiloh Baptist is not a church in compliance with the Word of God. The leaders are hiding from the truth, and lack concern and care for its members.
Anon 12:30 - Not everyone is guilty of sexually assaulting others! And if you are guilty of sexually assaulting others, and especially if you are using your position of power and authority over others to do that, I pray you get caught! Each of the states has a place for sex offenders: jail.
Even if everyone else does it, that doesn't give you the right to do it. The Bible teaches that sexual immorality is detestable in God's eyes. It is evil.
How arrogant you are!
Anon 11:48 pm.
You keep skirting around my question. You have convinced me that you know who to trust and who not to trust and that you have the mind of God. Are you able to tell me soundly that when we vote, the next pastor is definitely not of God. Can you tell me soundly that God has ignored all our prayers and is not involved in this process whatsoever? Can you tell me that none of the candidates are 1 Timothy chapter 3 men. Can you tell me definitely that God has not prepared the next pastor for such a time as this? Can you tell me definitely that the next pastor was not called by God for this position(you would have to know that pastor's prayer life, his relationship to God and what God has told him to do)? Can you PROVE God is nowhere in this?
Please! If I know and I don't go to these churches, surely they know! Am i supposed to go church to church telling them about their pastors dirty deeds; the most I will get is a dirty look and dismissed. Besides if I know, their wives know so why don't they pull their husbands in or report them to the leadership.
You seemed to have known about Shiloh, why didn't you report it and pull the veil off sooner?
12:47 am:
Did I say everyone does it? No, I did not! I said it happens in many churches today, not only in this city but across the world(as evidenced by the news). That is not being arrogant, it's just telling the truth.
I just thought since you are able to tell who is right with God and who isn't, that you would know that.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. As believers, we should trust and obey the Lord; what He tells us to do in his Word.
Is it that difficult for you to understand that Shiloh's leaders have apparently not repented publicly--something that the Lord through the apostle Paul requires?
Is it so hard for you to understand that many people have been hurt by the actions of Shiloh's leaders (and the actions of certain Southern Baptist leaders)?
Have you absolutely no compassion for the two teens (and apparently the many women) who were victimized?
Do you honestly believe God will bless men who live like unbelievers? It might help you to read I Thessalonians 4:1-8:
"Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because THE LORD IS THE AVENGER of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us the Holy Spirit."
The Lord Jesus Himself declares in Matthew 18, "Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!" (v. 7). He also says, "...it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea" (v. 6).
DG and Shiloh's leaders have made God angry. What makes you think God will bless Shiloh's carnal efforts to acquire a new pastor?
Anon 1:15 - your arrogance comes from being too proud to do anything about it.
And yes, you are right. I'm glad to see that you acknowledge that clergy sexual abuse is rampant in churches. Some who work with victims of clergy sexual abuse, have stated it is at epidemic proportions in our churches and religious institutions.
And the Southern Baptist Convention has just taken a "hands off" policy in regard to clergy sexual abuse. An SBC church is not a safe place for women and children these days.
12:12 - We trust God by obeying His Word. Is the leadership of Shiloh trusting God?
Just a couple of quick points of clarification:
1. The leaders who hired DG are no longer the "church leaders". DG was at Shiloh for over 14 years. In that time, many of the people who hired him have gone on to glory or no longer hold major leadership positions. Since the current leaders had nothing to do with hiring him, they have no need to offer a "public apology".
2. Shiloh is not a part of the SBC. Therefore, the leaders and censorship of that group have no bearing on Shiloh.
3. Whether you guys realize this or not, one of the main "voices" here is DG himself. Anyone who's sat under his "leadership" for some time should be able to recognize his words-they haven't changed.
So, I have a message for you Darrell-
You do know that when this first came to light, you had a chance to humble yourself and to answer to those whom you served. You chose not to. You chose to remain arrogant and to believe that you were above the law and answered to no man. Had you gone the correct route, and been innocent, I truly believe that the church would have stuck by you. Since however, ARROGANCE and PRIDE direct your ways rather than any of the fruit of the spirit, you are now in your current predicament. Darrell- you DO have to answer to man. We have little things called laws and a bigger concept called morals that are applicable to even you. Not to mention God's word- if you truly believed it you would be AFRAID to be as arrogant as you are. If you don't get your punishment on earth (since it look like you may skip real jail time and just get a slap on the hand), I fear for your final reception.
Sad Shilite
It is very insulting to me that you feel everybody at Shiloh is carnal, has no relationship with God, doesn't pray, doesn't trust God. We are not heathens just doing our own thing and wanting to call ourselves a church.
I don't know of anyone who KNEW about anything going on with these 2 teens. There was knowledge of being involved with other women but you couldn't prove most of it. He of course would categorically deny it and the women often times were married themselves so they weren't about to come forward and be honest for fear of what would happen to there families.
I would never know about someone hurting children in any capacity, whether they are a pastor or not, and not do anything about it. It breaks my heart when I hear of any child being abused in any way. We did not know about this until it hit the news. Adultery, although morally wrong and against God, is not a crime punishable by law. When you call yourself turning someone in to leadership it can't just be your word against theirs(esp when both parties deny it as above), you have to have proof. Who has time to follow these men around all day to get surveillance.
And like I thought, you CAN'T tell me that what we have been praying for in a pastor, God is not in the midst of. Every member of Shiloh is not carnal minded and to say that we are shows your arrogance! You can't tell me that God has not chosen the next pastor and sent him to us; to do so would be leaning on your own understanding. God tells us in his word that His ways are not our ways, His thoughts much higher than ours. Maybe, just maybe, this whole thing was His plan to expose DG, get him out of there so that He could station the right man of God there. When you believe and trust God, you know that nothing is just a coincidence, God is in control of it all, even when it doesn't go by our textbook thinking because you can't put God in a box concerning how he will answer prayer.
Sad Shilite - no one said Shiloh was a part of the SBC. Perhaps it was a misunderstanding.
But, IF Shiloh were a part of the SBC, then the SBC would give no direction in this matter. Shiloh would be on its own--which it is anyway.
Anon 8:41 - I believe Anon 1:26 a.m. was referring to Shiloh's LEADERS being carnal because of their unrepentance, not the entire congregation.
The report is that the family of at least one of the teens went to DG, then to Shiloh's leadership before they went to the police. So how can you say know one KNEW of what DG was doing with the teens? The leadership knew, and did nothing to help the teen. Why, if the leadership was acting in accord with biblical mandates, did they not immediately take action?
And why, after many years of knowledge of "adultery" with the pastor was there no action taken? Since when is "adultery" okay for a pastor? And yes, it would have been prudent to do surveillence on the pastor to see if the allegations were true or not. Or were the leaders afraid of what they might find out if they did surveillance?
Do you need a secular law to tell you right from wrong? -- and perhaps the church in this country does -- but then I suppose the Christians would complain that their rights were being taken away. What about the rights of the victims of clergy sexual abuse? Don't all people have the right to attend church without being preyed upon?
And who is declaring that DG was committing "adultery" with women at Shiloh? This declaration speaks only to your ignorance of clergy sexual abuse.
There seems to be a lack of understanding with some in regard to leadership and laymanship. The sheep are not the shepherds. The shepherds have a fiduciary duty over the sheep, which gives the shepherds greater power and authority...and responsibility.
anon 7/21 12:42 AM you said "I'm pretty satisfied that Shiloh Baptist is not a church in compliance with the Word of God."
How do you define a church that is "in compliance?" Once you've defined "in compliance" what church do you know for sure meet the requirement(s)? If we can agree that the local church is a body of "born again believers" consider this: Is the pastor or all the members perfect in their observation of all things scriptural? Does your perfect church emphasize Christ or have the affections and honor due Jesus Christ been displaced upon the pastor/preacher. When you start to treat the pastor like he is a god don't be surprised when he starts to act that way.
Be careful in your condemnation of God's Church lest you put yourself in God's place in judging his church and his people. Jesus has already taken care of that in His letters to the seven churches in Revelation. He doesn't need your (our) help.
I didn't take it that Anon 12:42 was condemning Shiloh. He was speaking about the leaders of Shiloh not coming forward to the congregation. It was not a condemnation of the church.
Thank you for the reminder that Jesus (through the apostle John) in Revelation has already admonished churches. The admonition to modern-day churches is to strive to not be like the churches of Revelation. Those churches, even with their good points, failed in some capacity at following God's mandates for the church.
Of course, the word "strive" is the operative word. Is there an intent to follow the Word of God (not just teach the Word). From my understanding of reading the Bible, Christians ought to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
There is a biblical heirarchy in the church: Jesus is the head, then come the "bishops" (elders), then deacons, then the lay people. The apostle Paul is the one who established the heirarchy, not me (I Tim 3). The very word "pastor" means to shepherd. A shepherd is in a position of authority over the sheep.
No one should ever treat any pastor like a god. That would be idolatry. We are to worship God alone.
Having said that, the apostle Paul tells lay people to treat good elders with the respect due them (I Thess 5:12,13).
As for Christ, the head of the universal Church, I profess, along with Paul, "He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen" (I Tim 6:15,16).
anon July 21 1:02 AM If you don't go to that church you don't know. Many of the members didn't know although they may have heard rumors. Rumors which are denied by all parties involved don't amount to credible evidence. You should carefully re-read anon July 21 2008 8:41 AM who has a much better understanding than you do of how accusations and proof against a popular pastor works--not just in Shiloh--but in churches everywhere.
Here is how it goes:
When asked to confirm what they told someone else in confidence (who breached that confidence) victims deny or refuse (for whatever reason: fear of ostracism, marital status, trauma or other) to face the pastor and repeat the accusations with witnesses present. When confronted without the victim present the pastor denies and accuses the inquiring leaders of all kinds of stuff; not trusting him; having a personal vendetta against him; etc. He then starts a whisper campaign among his staunchest supporters in the congregation against the victim(s) and those trying to get at the truth and before you know it many of the congregates have turned on the victim(s) or leader(s) who dare to utter an "unproven allegation" against "our pastor". One had better have pictures or have personally observed the event and they may not be believed even then. More often times than not it is the accuser or the inquiring leader who is "hounded out of the congregation" or silenced by congregates who would rather turn a deaf ear than hear serious allegations against someone they have placed in a position of worship that should be reserved for the true head of the church, Jesus Christ. "Church leaders" in so many churches are fearful of "sticking their necks out" and bringing a charge against a pastor for fear of being beheaded by the very congregations they need to support them in matters of pastoral discipline. Even when done by the instructions set forth in 1 Tim 5:19 many of the faithful don't want to receive it. I can't count the times I've heard "that's just hearsay" or "that's her word against his" from congregation members... or "I don't listen to all that garbage... I just come to get the Word..." or take your pick of a dozen other rebuffs to suggestions that a pastor is engaged in acts of immorality in the local congregation. Not one blogger here has acknowledged the courageous act of the leadership at Shiloh in getting and keeping G out of the pulpit after looking into the allegations. Had G been allowed to come before the congregation and "plead his case" likely the accusers and the leadership who supported them would be outcasts and G would still be in the pulpit at Shiloh. Even today there are members in the congregation who believe that G didn't do anything and was wrongly treated by those same "church bosses" who are so severely criticized by some on this blog.
anon July 21 2008 12:01 AM and others who continue to hammer this theme that "church leaders" or "church bosses" should do this and that, etc., re-read what July 21, 2008 8:32 AM says in the first point of his reply. It won't satisfy you because someone's "blood" is required in your mind(s) but it is as accurate a response as I have seen on this issue.
Last point: Those of you who continue to repeat the story that the parents of the victimized teens were rebuffed when they went to the church leadership should stop it. You ought to get your facts straight before you start spewing out your erroneous accounts about "what happened." Especially those of you who say "I don't attend...".
The closer Shiloh gets to calling a new pastor the higher the "noise level" will get. Satan will do whatever he can to derail the process. However, Satan is a defeated foe and God's plan for His church will prevail. It may very well be that this "valley experience" for Shiloh is a lesson to all churches that Christ, not God's preacher, is the head of the church and it is He, not the pastor who is to be exalted in our worship.
1 Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Dear Shiloh Members:
I come to speak with an objective point of view as I am not a member of the church! My husband and I live in the Los Angles metropolis, and know Rev. H. B. Charles, Jr. really well!
First, he is obviously a great preacher! There are no scandals on him. Yes, you're correct in that, H.B. doesn't have a seminary degree.
After listening and watching your candidates, I would say that DR. Joseph Evans seem to be a better fit for Shiloh. Why? In a word: Maturity! He has both the academic qualifications, character, experience, gift, and the ability to deal with the text in a profound way without the fanfare.
H.B. is a very nice young man with vast potential, but will bring in questionable ministers to preach.
In fact, if the whole truth be told, we are aware of another minister from California that submitted an resume, but apparently wasn't selected to be heard. He is in the Pasadena area, and his name is Rev. Wayne Cooper.
I have heard many great preachers/teachers in my lifetime, and I will have to include Mr. Cooper as one of the top ten easily. Why Shiloh didn't consider him is a mystery, but when my husband asked him had he been contacted, he was very respectful and philosophical by telling my husband that "God knows where He needs me".
I don't neccessarily think that H.B. would be a bad choice for Shiloh, but I think that Dr. Evans will bring instant credibility and stability to your church!
Respectfully Submitted,
Mrs. Silvia Watts
I am a deacon at Shiloh and I want to repent and confess. I am not the head deacon, so there was only so much I could do. We knew what DG was doing with the grown women. What surprised us was the children. The trouble at first was DG knew what some of the deacons were doing, so we couldn't talk. If DG had talked about what some of the leaders were doing, it could have destroyed some of their marriages. So we left him alone. Nobody ever thought it would come to this. He was bringing in the bacon. We left him alone. I would have been ostracized had I said anything. I am truly sorry to all the women who can't even acknowledge that they were victims. I am sorry for being silent when I should have spoken. I never thought so many people would get hurt.
Praise God that the truth is coming forth.
There is at least one righteous leader at Shiloh. Thank you for your honesty. Now there is a place to begin a real discussion about what happened, and what needs to be done to help the women (and children) who were victimized.
Anyone who thinks a "smooth plan" is God's endorsement and trouble in a plan is God's repudiation should read or re-read the Book of Nehemiah.
Isn't it amazing how everything the church boss disagrees with is "Satan" and everything he says is "God"? Now Satan wants to derail the process, while the boss has derailed the fairness of the process. He has derailed the other 2 candidacies by not allowing them the same opportunity that he gave HB. He has deprived us of the opportunity to assess them fairly, by not allowing us to experience their ministries the same number of times. Is God not a just God? God does not have to cheat to get His will accomplished.
To Ms. Sylvia Watts; The other pastor in California that you mentioned was contacted but was not interested which is why he said' God knows where He needs me". Rev. Cooper is the one who recommended HB to us!
And about Dr. Evans, there is NO WAY I and many others in the congregation, will vote for him! I hate to say this, but that man had way too many feminine characteristics and I do not want to see that in any pastor! You think you had problems with DG, what do you think will happen when you get that kind of spirit in a church! ABSOLUTELY NOT!
You all keep asking about the others candidates and what happened. A lot of these candidates, we found out thru background checks, had or have some unsavory things going on, an we absolutely can't have anything like that again! So if there was any kind of blemish they had to be disqualified.
Don't get side tracked.
let's stop pastor darrell gilyard together
It's about a predator that concerns me.
let's stop pastor darrell gilyard together
Now, there is a deacon with information. I know there is more. Ok, are you willing to help make a formal statement? Please do not let anyone else get hurt.
Please let's stay focus.
Did you ever wonder this could be a tactics to further DG?
Please let's stay focus until the job is done.
dfsa
It took a lot of courage for this deacon to take the chance of confessing through this blog. He needs to be commended for that.
His confession could be the saving grace here. Are there other deacons at Shiloh who can substantiate that the deacons knew of many victims?
(And thank you, deacon, for agreeing that the women, as well as the underage teens are "victims" and not "adulteresses." Victims do not commit adultery. The husbands of the victims need to understand that.)
When a pastor does unthinkable things in a church, and persuades the church leaders through fear, intimidation or even blackmail, to go along with what he's doing, the pastor perpetrator places everyone under his lie. It's a big ugly umbrella that blocks out the light.
When a church leader, like this deacon, comes forward to tell the truth, he steps out from under that lie umbrella into the light.
The sin/evil is the dastardly work of an evil man who wants to suck any and all he can into his evil. No one believes the deacon board wanted this evil in their church. But as long as the deacons are afraid to tell the truth, they remain under the lie umbrella. The way to get out from under it is to simply and openly tell the truth.
That's a truth that's difficult for the victims--which is why many are reluctant to come forward; they have much to lose. But the church leaders really have little to lose when they tell the truth.
And now, DG is gone. What's holding you back from telling the truth?
anon July 22, 4:02 PM You sound like someone who has an axe to grind with the church bosses. Were you kicked out of the church or something?
It is so amazing to me how such a little man could exert so much influence and control over other people. I can't believe some of those husbands, who found out he was messing with their wives, didn't just give him a good ole'fashioned beat down! it may have made him think twice the next time, but he senses weakness in others very well and knows who he can pull that junk on. It would not have bothered me one way or another if he didn't talk to me, fine! But i can understand those whose livelyhoods and families depended on those jobs, it couldn't have been an easy decision.
Don't think none of the others haven't come forward. They may not have done it on this forum or publicly but they have given their depositions to the SA.
Deacon,
Thank you SO much for coming forward! I and many others have prayed for repentance from the leadership, and this is a BIG deal for me and others to hear. Since you are anonymous, can you please shed some light for me as to what is currently going on with the leadership, in your opinion? By this I mean, have you sensed that God is working on other hearts also, especially the Deacons that were there when all of this was going on?
I thank God that you came forward and I believe that if you allow Him, God can use you to make a difference in all of this. Believe it or not, you are being used, even now!
I and others will be praying for you, that God will give you the strength and courage to continue to do the right thing.
Sincerely,
Ms. J
The "haterade" seems to be flowing very well. It would appear to me that the shift would certainly focus on First Timothy and Pastor Fred Newbill for allowing Gilyard a platform. This appears to be tell those folks at Shiloh what to do blog.
From what I see on TV, Shiloh still has a lot of people attending it. It appears that Shiloh was built from the word of God and the backs of the tithing and offering of the people of God. Gilyard appeared to have been a vehicle of church growth for those at Shiloh.
Newbill and First Timothy need to be getting the negative energy, not the people that are going through the process of getting there pastor.
Hold on people and wait for the people of Shiloh to speak not a bunch of people that are misinformed.
Lastly, no one (Jacksonville as a whole-non for profits and other churches in the community) is even willing to hold a sign up or show a united front on sex with kids in front of First Timothy (Pastor Rod) because "the spirit has not led" them. The Pastor of this blog has grown silent I see. First Timothy is in front of and Elementary school and in the middle of many singe family homes, not gated communities.
Go on Shiloh bloggers, you show Jacksonville how to stick together as a healthy, striving congregation. Good luck to you over there. For you other interlopers, let Gilyard see you all at that Wednesday bible study he does on Wednesday nights. Let's see if you can really show the community that you want to "...stop pastor darrell gilyard together." If that is not the case, wait on the courts and families to do their job. The media did theirs.
Let First Timothy defend Gilyard and Newbill. Those are the real "church bosses".
James Junior
To the deacon who apologized and confessed, I want you to know that I dearly appreciate your post. Also anon 7/21 11:09pm thank you for yours. Both your comments brought clarity as I suspected the truth was hard to pull out. And by history, Gilyard is all too familiar with the game. It truly must be one for him. This time I hope the game card says, "GO TO JAIL"
James Junior, July 22 @8:37 am, I like that comment! Every one has been riding Shiloh hard, but shouldn't Newbill and 1st Timothy get the same. I mean afterall, New bill is allowing him to preach in his church currently even after all these charges! Newbill can't say he doesn't know!
For all of you that feel Shiloh just sat idly by and did nothing, but yet you are willing to sit Idly by while he still preaches in another community right across the street from a school. Now I ask you like you asked us, What kind of Christians are YOU?!
To Anonymous:
With all due respect to you, I think you're misinformed on several fronts:
1. After reading your comments, my husband called Pastor Cooper, and he doesn't remember ever having been contacted by anyone from Shiloh. Perhaps you have someone else in mind??
2. Dr. Evans is very much a man from what I can see, and believe it or not, he and HB Charles know each other, and have preached on the same platforms many times. Again, I adore HB, but Dr. Evans is much more mature and stable!
3. I would encourage your committee to make sure they are sincere in getting "God's man", and not their "flunkie".
4. I have no respect for men who, would know that the pastor is sleeping with their wives and do nothing about it! What kind of "men" does Shiloh have in Leadership positions?
Respectfully Yours,
Slvia Watts
Sylvia Watts, What should First Timothy do? It seems tha you have the answer for Jacksonville, (california) Florida churches.
James Junior
Hello James Junior; The so called Pastor of this blog reads it every day.Remember that I was a member of Shiloh for 7 years not 1st Timothy.I talked to many of the women who were unwillingly harassed by Darrell and some who willing slept with him.I was the one who spear-headed the attempt to have the leaders of Shiloh act,and the congregation vote to remove Darrell from his position.What did I get for my effort...basically THROWN OUT OF THE CHURCH.If you are a member of Shiloh during those days.What did you do?
And by the way James I wish and pray that Shiloh gets the best man for its pastor.I still have many friends at Shiloh.
Ms. Watts @11:07 pm.
He may not "remember" but he was contacted and referred us to another great pastor he knew, HB!
I don't know what kind of men you are use to, but I and MANY others did not feel that DR. Evans was all man. The persona we saw with our own eyes when he preached here, left many with that impression and were quite uncomfortable with it and didn't like it at all.
Mrs. Watts,
While this blog is open for your opinion, it is just that "an opinion". Obviously by your statement "Dr. Evans is very much a man from what I can see, and believe it or not, he and HB Charles know each other, and have preached on the same platforms many times. Again, I adore HB, but Dr. Evans is much more mature and stable!"- you have some very strong opinions on who Shiloh should call to be our next pastor. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), you have not been asked to be an advisor, counselor, or member of the Pastoral Search Committee. Had you been, your opinions might have weighed into the equation.
Whether the readers of this blog want to believe it or not, there will be a process that affords all MEMBERS the right to voice their opinion on who our pastor should be. Should you truly want your opinion to count, the membership option is available. If not..it's kind of like people who want to complain about the president, derail the political process, or say that things are not equitable, but who won't go out and vote. Thanks for your opinion but...we'll make up our own minds.
As for me, it may not be HB but it DEFINITELY won't be Evans. His reputation precedes him. Education, social programs, and political prowess will not get one person into heaven.
Many on this blog have greatly appreciated Pastor Rod's input. He is a man of great compassion and courage. Thank you Pastor Rod for standing with and behind the victims. You've done the right thing.
If you read much earlier on this blog site you will find that Pastor Rod explained why he could not participate in a protest.
From what they've stated on this blog, Anon 10:21 and James Junior were aware that DG was teaching at 1st Timothy. Why didn't they pick up a picket and protest? Weren't they concerned for the women and children at 1st Timothy? They were just aware as Pastor Rod.
Too proud to hold a picket sign? Did anyone call Newbill and offer up some wise counsel? Especially since the deacons (according to the one who confessed) were aware of DG's problems. It's not gossip when people's lives are at stake.
This question is for the leaders of Shiloh. If Evans is DEFINITELY NOT the type man you want to see in your pulpit, why is he even on your "short list?"
In the event Evans receives more votes than HB, how will that be handled? Will you allow him to assume his position of Pastor or will you concoct a plan to get rid of him?
I find it totally disheartening that you would imply that Evans' "manhood" is questionable when you present absolutely no evidence to substaniate your claim.
Anon July 22, 2008 4:02 PM At least the church boss is backing up his or her comments with scripture. Where is your scriptural support for your rants?
Eph 6:11,12 "6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
The sleeping giant has awakend! Pastor Rod, you are not a member of First Timothy and stand independently I would gather. It still does not excuse you from actively tryng to stop Gilyard. The woman who started the blog was on the news and appears to be willing to stand infront of a camera and say I told you so. You have chosen to stand behind a blog.
I know that most Pastors in this town will not say a thing in public but "pray for him and the victims". That's the safe thing to do, even thogh they don't have to risk being "kicked out" of Shiloh.
One Senior Pastor spoke in detail about Pastor Wright with his comments that nearly derailed one of the presidential candidates campaign. Spoke up for the JTA boss a few years ago too. Yeah, he was certainly backing one of his people which show grit in my opinion. But why did he not come out publically and say anything about Gilyard? You are not to try to answer that, that just a rhetorical question.
Believe me, I will standby and allow Shiloh to make their decision and not blame the people in the pews for Gilyards foolishness. No one, not even you went to the media about this.
Keep the people of God encouraged. It's obvious that no one wants to hold First Timothy accountable so leave Shiloh to pick a Pastor of their choice.
Dawn Lopez is easy to contact by email. "let's stop pastor darrell gilyard together" not pick a Pastor for Shiloh.
As for me and what I'm doing, I'm basically exposing how people like you will play preacher until it's time to really lead. I must wait also on the investigation against him and the charges before I will protest First Timothy if he is convicted and only get's probation and continues to preach at that church. I can wait on the investigation, the court and Shiloh to pick a Pastor. I will not not try to say the spirit has not led me. "...the spirit of truth, will lead us into all truth." I'm sure you bible scholars know where that comes from, right?
Since you knew so much, did you contacted the State Attorney on what you knew when you were a member of Shiloh?
I must continue to reiterate to you this, Shiloh looks healthy on TV, Beaver Street still get's congested when they have services and from the Shiloh folks that I know of, most seem to be happy with getting a new Pastor and moving forward.
Lean on First Timothy and Gilyard not Shiloh, bloggers.
Where is your church Pastor Rod? I will certainly visit it like the many I have visited in Jacksonville.
I will continue to watch Shiloh in the am on Sunday, even when they get the new Pastor.
I don't need alot of scripture to back up my comments at this point, alot of the bloggers have conviently used and misused the scripture already not mentioning any one in particular, so don't take it personal.
James Junior
Anon 1:26 pm. The comment about Dr.Evans ABSOLUTELY NOT being an option came from me, a member, not the leaders. It is my opinion and I only have 1 vote, but it will not be cast in his direction. I happen to know that alot of others feel the way I do. They showed portions of their taped interviews this past Sunday and I will have to tell you it seems many felt the same way.
About my presenting evidence to the fact, if you had been at Shiloh that Sunday and saw him with your own eyes you would know what I was referring to. His mannerisms and demeanor is just not what I want to see in my pastor every Sunday.
I definitely don't see him getting more votes than HB.
To Anon 10:26 am:
I know there are some who contacted Newbill to tell him he was making a mistake. Deacons of 1st Timothy have talked with deacons of Shiloh to find out what was going on. They went back to Newbill with it and he basically said, 'I'm the pastor of this church and I say he stays, take it or leave it'.
Many may not know this, but DG and Newbill are tight and have decided to stick together in this thing. I don't think they have been getting the influx of people like DG probably thought; I think he thought a lot of people would leave shiloh to follow him and that just hasn't been the case.
To Anon 4:42 - thank you for your clarification. Sometimes you can only do your best to warn others. The people of 1st Timothy also have a duty in this case. It's hard to believe they are not aware of the allegations against DG or that he is "out on bail" awaiting his trial. Grace is one thing, but prudence is another.
If the private phone calls to Newbill didn't work, then a protest probably would have been an ineffective charade.
Pastor Rod is not the enemy here. Nor is anyone else. A lot of people have been hurt because of what DG was doing.
I don't see that the bloggers here are trying to put undue pressure on Shiloh. I'm sure there are some who are seeing if they could go back to Shiloh--if they could trust the leaders there again. That's important stuff.
When one member of the body hurts, the whole body hurts. To just cut members off--even if they have chosen to leave because of what happened--is not the best way to bring healing to this situation.
What would it hurt to wait a few more weeks before calling a new pastor? Shiloh is apprently doing well in the interim. Why the rush to call a new pastor?
Perhpas HD, as wonderful a guy as he is, needs a little more looking into. Ms. Watts raises some legitimate concerns. You wouldn't want to throw a younger, more inexperienced man without professional credentials into a situation that requires a lot of wisdom, especially once things heat up with DG in the courts.
MY,MY,MY, SYLIVA , so you know him well, WELL. And you come with an objective point of view.Sounds like you are a HB hater , i dont know him as well as you do, but the week he was here , he was very open and also (it may shock you) has a MIND of his own , no flunkie can pastor for 17 yrs. his info is open to anyone who wants to know. you tell me SYLVIA why hb is a bad choice for a church you will never attend? O yeah a man with no scandals and a great preacher (your words) but you did get that right. i heard that hb is furthering his seminary training he has gone to school( o you may already know this) , but because the LORD has BLESSED him at such an early age has yet to finish , but will be going back , i think he PASTORS a CHURCH 17 yrs. ( you tell me) and has a family ( you tell me) your OBJECTIVE view is INSULTING to me especially you being from LA an all. Think you just hate to lose such a GREAT preacher that GOD is using. RESPECTFULLY ALL MAN. so you dont think this is some kind of cat fight. have a good day Cooper.
Gee James (3:03pm post), you are really confused.. attack the predator not the one who cried in the wilderness.
God bless you pastor Rod. I appreciate all your input and enjoy reading your comments. Be encouraged.
You are right anon 7:22, pastor Rod was a voice crying in a wilderness. Not many were trying to hear him because they did not want to be as bold as him. This man should not be attacked.
Okay scholars help me out here. In a familier book it reads, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether the fornicators of this world, or with covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 wrtten by a fellow named Paul.
That's just something for the ones who needs the scriptural support. Please expound these words for the scholars please? Lay people do not know what this says. Certainly a preacher with mass credentials and knowledge of the Greek text can help me out here? Yea right! Paul was talking to church folk! Not people out in the world. Scripture only affirm good common sense. a fellow named Timothy reminds us that scripture is inspired by God and profitable for doctrine, reproof, CORRECTION, INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS...
Certainly Pastor Rod is not the enemy, I just want to attend his church.
Credentials, flunkies? Sounds like Newbill is Darrells flunky. The First Timothy deacons are Newbills flunky. Good, they are atleast all in one place now.
Darrell is an exordinary preacher and he does not have credentials the first and ran a megachurch. It appears that he just can't keep his hands off women and children.
James Junior
Okay Anon 7:22 and Kay. Let me clarify. Being a member of Shiloh 7 years does not qualify a person to keep folk chattering about Shiloh or any other church and their obvious mistake at an individual like Darrell Gilyard.
Like you say, the predator is the issue here.
The difference is this, Pastor Rod basically says that he knew too, but kept it in the confines of friends at Shiloh. Again, hedid not go to the media. He said that he spoke with the victims that were willing and unwilling, right?
I didn't know about Gilyard because I'm not a church worker or an insider at Shiloh. It appeared to me that he was admitting that he was a part of the problem by revealing the reason he had to leave Shiloh on this blog.
Most people that are kicked out of a place raise sand while going out. It's obvious some go but go in silence, then when something happends then they want to say they knew but nobody did anything. The media is a fine place to start. As big as a figure as he is, Dawn Lopez is giving him the business.
Read between the lines here, this stuff finally hit the press in Jacksonville in Dec 2007, long after Rod left Shiloh. O-bye-the-way, as you can see, I use my own name as a signature of my statement. I don't leave my stuff blank.
James Junior
James why is it that you want to attend Rod's church. I know it is some people's job to critique churches and it appears that's all you want to do. I thought I was jaded about preachers and churches but I believe you have me beat.
That's a good point you bring up about Darrell not having credentials and how he ran a church. Yeah! ran it amok! Having credentials shows one major thing among other things: Discipline. Something Darrell didn't have quite enough of. Like it or not, most all employers like to know that you have a degree and it doesn't always matter what it's in--just that you have one.
Anon 8:21, you mean I can't go to his church? Why do I want to go to his church? Well, to hear the word of God being preached by the man of God. Isn't that the reason most people attend church?
Better yet, can i go to your church? Too?
James Junior
Anon 5:20 pm:
I'm not quite sure what being 35 years old has to do with his calling and abilities. HB was called to be the pastor of his cuurent church when he was 17 after the death of his father. I don't know many 17 yo that could have taken on that responsibility(just think about your own teenagers if you will). They looked for an entire year for a pastor, and obviously weren't able to find what they wanted/needed and therefore called HB. I think that says an awful lot about him! To be placed in such a position at such an early age , I can only imagine he had to grow up, mature and develop at a fast rate in order to still be the pastor there 18years later.
Again, and I have said this before, what does age have to do with it when God has called you. Whenever God wants to use you, He will provide you with what you need to accomplish his will. How many preachers do you know that started preaching at 50; most of them started at an early age.
There are so many Biblical examples of great men of God that he chose at an early age.Joseph, David, Samuel, just to name a few. What about Billy Graham, called by many to be the greatest evangelist of our time, was in his 20's when he was called into his ministry. Joel Osteen(some like him, some don't) has one of the largest, if not THE largest ministries today and what is he 30s to 40s?
So just because the man is 35, that means he is to young and inexperienced for the job. Thank God, He is the one who does the calling and not man! I'm so glad He is so much bigger than our limited thinking. For man looks at the outer appearance but God looks at the heart. It just may be that in God's eyes HB has the HEART for the job!!
Post a Comment