What a powerful message delivered today by the mother of one of the victims. I watched in amazement as she faced the man that she at one time respected and admired, and looked to for spiritual leadership – the same man that has been responsible for the pain, violation and destruction within her family and specifically to her daughter.
You would think that her message to him would be of anger and possibly asking “how could you?” Instead, she showed a true testimony to the world of what we are taught Biblically to do, to love our enemies and those that persecute us. I am blessed just to have been there to see this exchange, to see grace and mercy extended in the midst of much pain. Here are some of her words:
She began her message with one simple truth; the Bible tells us that If we are to confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. However she pointed out one of the most overlooked points of that verse – IF – She proceeded to remind Darrell Gilyard that confessing sins, admitting failure, is exactly what prisoners of pride refuse to do.
And then Phil. 3:14 states “I keep trying to reach the goal and get the prize for which God called me.” She reads this to him and then asks, “Is this what God called you to do as you reached for the goal? God began a good work in you and I am sure He will complete it until it is finished according to Philippians 1:6”
At this point in the courtroom, it was silent, everyone was listening. I looked at Judge Weatherby and he was leaning forward a bit with his chin resting on his hand, listening. Hank Coxe had to have felt uncomfortable, he kept glancing over at her and then to Darrell. Darrell was still, head down, hands clasped behind his back. A surreal moment as this former parishioner is preaching to her former Pastor.
She goes on to tell him that “God uses Satan to fortify His church, even when Satan appears to win, ‘Darrell’, he loses.” And that “Confession does not create a relationship with God, it nourishes it.” She tells him that though he did not lose his position with God, he has lost his peace with God.
Isn’t that so true? God never stops loving us, but we feel a loss because we are separated due to our lack of repentance of sin.
Darrell was certainly an incredible speaker and knew God’s word, how odd and uncomfortable it had to be for him to hear this. She reminds him that he, as the Shepard abused her daughter inside of the Shepard’s office. Among other things she also reminds him that lives have been destroyed and that he will have to give an account for this.
Her final message is so amazing it is God talking through a wounded person right in the midst of tragedy…she says “Just know God loves us and wants the best for us. I will pray for you as always that at some point you get right with God. You are forgiven by me. I have no malice in my heart as we all have sinned and woe is the man or woman that does not confess and turn from their wicked ways.”
Hallelujah! Praise be to Jesus! To Him is all of the glory and honor and praise! Ministering to the man that hurt her daughter, the same man that was supposed to minister to her.
A dear friend called me tonight to pray with me, she was also abused at the hands of a minister as a young girl. We have talked and shared our stories before and one thing we are both aware of and thankful for is our stories. We have shared before that our stories have made us who we are today. They are testimonies of God’s power, His love, His grace and His mercy. He has taught us so much about forgiveness and trust, though by worldly standards we should be bitter, unforgiving and unable to trust. It is the contrary; God has allowed great strength, trust and healing to come from tragedy and heartache.
On this note, as we were talking she shared this thought with me and it touched me deeply and I feel is so appropriate to end on. I said in an interview today that it is time to lay down the label of “victim” and replace it with “overcomer”, I want you to know that you do not have to let his crimes against you define who you are, but it can define Who God is.
My sweet friend shared that out of the dark places in our lives, He will help us to sift through and “mine” through the rubble and discover riches that we wouldn’t have otherwise. No matter how devastating the storm, the aftermath can look so bleak and you are tempted to carry around this “victim” armor, lay it down and dig for the treasures that God will bring from it. They are there, waiting to be discovered.
37 comments:
"And then Phil. 3:14 states “I keep trying to reach the goal and get the prize for which God called me.” She reads this to him and then asks, “Is this what God called you to do as you reached for the goal? God began a good work in you and I am sure He will complete it until it is finished according to Philippians 1:6”"
Tiffany, I understand your heart in posting this. But there is so much bad theology in this post, I hardly know where to start.
First of all, there is not evidence of fruit that God did begin a good work in Gilyard. Knowing scripture and being a popular well spoken orator preacher is not good fruit. Satan knows scripture better than any of us!
Take this into consideration:
Per Dr. Paul Martin of Wellspring, of the 210 verses that refer to false prophets, priests, elders and Pharisees, here is a summary of their content:
99 verses (47%) concern Behavior
66 verses (31%) concern Fruit
24 verses (12%) concern Motive
21 verses (*ONLY 10%*) concern Doctrine
A person who is saved does not continue in willful premeditated sin for 20 years!.. See Hebrews 10:26-31. They cannot. They do sin but they have godly sorrow for it.
She is claiming that a man who willfully committed premeditated sin for a span of 20 years WHILE KNOWING THE TRUTH, was saved that whole time. that is impossible.
1 Corin 5 teaches us that he is not a brother. Not to even eat with him until he is in full repentance. Over 20 years of preaching, counseling others, Gilyard was never convicted by the Holy Spirit to repent? He had to be charged by the civil government?
Pray for him to be saved. She was preaching a wrong gospel to the folks in the court. She was teaching them that Christians can fall that far for over 20 years, with no godly sorrow and repentance and still consider themselves saved. That is cheap grace. And the blood is much too precious to cheapen like that.
Mark
I understand your theology point - I also have questioned Gilyards salvation until I was corrected many times by others - we are not able to Judge another's salvation. Certainly it is dangerous territory to satnd in judgement of another. Therefore, she is speaking scripturally to a man that has shown a gross conduct of sin - believing that it is entirely possible for him to be saved and yet so overtaken by sin that he is far removed from God, though not losing his salvation.
See we can all speculate all day long based on his past, his behavior, his preaching, his "fruit", his "rotten" twisting of scriptures.....but in truth, only God and Darrell Gilyard know the state of his salvaion.
The point of her message to him is that she hopes God reaches him - it is ultimately his choice (whether he is saved or not) to listen to god, to be led by God, to sin against God, to shake his fist at God, to mock God...no matter what his choices, God can still work through Him and He can still bring about a good work in the end. Right? Our Savior is much bigger than this man's flagrant sin, Isn't He? His precious blood was shed not just for our "minor" (and I say this lightly) sins, not just for lying, cheating, stealing, covetousness...but also for major crimes such as acting as an imposter of the gospel while abusing God's sheep. There are awful sins to us, but they are all still blanket sin to God.
While I understand what you are concerned about, to an extent, please do not cheapen the message of this brave woman. She was extending grace and mercy to a man that had been responsible for leading her to a better walk wih God, to trust with her innocent child...I say Bravo! The message does not need to be picked apart in its doctrine.
You state:
"Pray for him to be saved. She was preaching a wrong gospel to the folks in the court. She was teaching them that Christians can fall that far for over 20 years, with no godly sorrow and repentance and still consider themselves saved. That is cheap grace. And the blood is much too precious to cheapen like that."
You do not understand that the message was about Him truly finding God - she told him that she prays that for him (exactly what you are stating) . She also stated that If we are to confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. She was telling DG that he must first admit his sins, confess them...
You know, I really don't feel I need to even further delve into this message - it speaks for itself...
Sometimes we get so tied up in "theology" that we miss the more simple messages...the Bible tells us to come to Him with faith as a child. Children are incapable of theology...
I understand that scripture gets twisted and misused, that is dangerous, but at the same time, God can speak different messages to different people using the same scriptures.
The word is alive and active!
I totally agree with you Mark. There are so many false prophets. Many are called but few are chosen. Pastoring to some is just means of gaining material things. God is going to uncover more and more of these false prophets who are using his people to get rich.
Extending Grace - It is normally a good concept, if and only if, God gives the Grace to you [victim] first, and out of the overflow of your heart you extend this Grace to the abuser.
If you force yourself to extend this Grace, when there is hurt, anger and bitterness inside you, you do yourself more harm and damage by forcing yourself to extend Grace, when you can not give Grace, just for the sake of conformity to external pressures, say Christian brothers and sisters who feel that is how they are supposed to act outwardly.
It is a tragedy to do this.
If there is anger and hurt, it is OK to feel this way. Let God minister to you. It is ok to speak out against your abuser.
You must also realize that it has been over a year since this happened. Many emotions have been processed and there has been much time to heal.
You do not always receive the benefit of one offering repentance (sometimes that never comes) but you still need to work through the procees and find healing and forgiveness, if not, I fully agree that bitterness and pain can build up.
Powerful, gifted, effective and pursuasive speakers are a distraction to Our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:1-5
1When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[a] 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
What we need from preachers are humility, grace, wisdom and love of the parishioners.
This sermon of Pastor Wade Burleson is very apt here.
#18. Testing the Spirits (I John 4:1-6), of the series I John: The Christian and Complete Joy. If you watch the video, it's titled "Testing the Spirits", May 17, 2009 - Part 18 of series (1 Jn. 4:1-6).
II. There is personal motive behind this command -- "many false prophets" (v.1).
False prophets (religious people) are a huge problem in the world and the people who do not "test the spirits" are the ones victimized. It would seem that the text indicates that "many" religious teachers are false teachers -- they are under demonic influence. This would include all the cults, all spiritual movements, all religious organizations, all self-help methodologies, and the like. This is a massive problem in our culture. The world is literally drowning in a sea of demonic lies, is it not? It is good for us all to remember that the devil disguises himself as an "angel of light" and that which is taught under the influence of a demonic spirit will be disguised as "light."
III. There is a particular method to obey this command -- "By this you know" (v.2).
John does not leave us in the dark as to how to test the teaching of the Spirit of God.
A. Look for a confession that Jesus is God and Lord (v.3).
This is basic Christology. Jesus Christ is Jesus "the Messiah" come to earth. If you have somebody who denies that Jesus is God come to deliver us from sin you have what John calls "the spirit of anti-Christ" (v.3). (See I John 2:22). But even demons believe Jesus is God and tremble at the thought (James 2:19). "You must confess with you mouth that Jesus is Lord" (Romans 10:9). He's boss.
B. Examine to see divine life in the one who is teaching (v.4).
"Little children, you are from God . . . He who is in you is greater than he that is in the world. They [false teachers] are from the world" (I John 4:4-5). Look at their lives for a demonstration of regeneration (i.e. "humility, grace, love").
C. Find out if there is a willing submission to the word of God (v.6).
"Whoever knows God listens to us" (v.6). The inspired word of God is our guide.
"I understand your theology point - I also have questioned Gilyards salvation until I was corrected many times by others - we are not able to Judge another's salvation.
."
Tiffany, I think this blessed woman who spoke to Gilyard is wonderful. I admire her. I praise God for her heart.
But. We cannot sit on the sidelines and ignore truth that is boldly printed in the Word. Listen to what 1 Corin 5 says about the immoral brother:
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Get that? So he may be saved in the end..the Judgement day.
Read the whole chapter carefully.
You know what the Corinthian church was saying? They were saying he could be saved and live in continual wilfull sin. Paul is saying NO. Turn him over to Satan so he CAN be saved.
It is the same in Matthew 18 if there is no repentance. That person is to be treated like a tax gatherer or Gentile. What that means is an 'unsaved' person.
If I can be saved WHILE committing heinous sins for 20 years then there is NO sacrifice for sin. (Hebrews 10)
We do not know who will be saved in the END. But we can certainly judge fruit and discern from there whether one is a true brother or not. Gilyard does not pass the test and we must pray that the Holy Spirit will convict him and he repents.
There are many who use that excuse that we cannot judge anyone. But then, how do we deal with folks like Gilyard? We would be fools to treat him as if he is saved and knows the truth. The man used Jesus Christ as a cover to defile young women!
What that verse about judging salvation means is that in the end we do not know who is saved. God allows the wheat nd tares grow up together. Many who work miracles and preach in His Name will not be saved. Jesus said: I never knew you. (Matthew 7)
You said:
"believing that it is entirely possible for him to be saved and yet so overtaken by sin that he is far removed from God, though not losing his salvation."
This is a direct contradiction of scripture. Many places. Matthew 5-7, Hebrews 10, 1 John, etc.
What you are saying is that if Gilyard were hit by a bus today without repentance for his 20 year lifestyle of sin, he can be far removed from God yet still saved.
How is Jesus Christ glorified by that? How is regeneration to be taught? What on earth is the point of sanctification?
continued...
continued..
No wonder our mega churches are full with this type of thinking. There is no consequence of sin because we said a prayer and got baptized 30 years ago. Never mind that taking up the cross and following Him, thing. It matters not.
1 John
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1 John
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.
13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother[c] abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Did Gilyard love his brothers and sisters? It says it right here that he is a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him...
Unless he truly repents. I pray he does. This is serious stuff and not to be taken lightly. Eternity in hell is not to be taken so lightly. I would not wish that on the most horrible of criminals. Which is why we must teach truth.
Mark
I will have to agree with anon 11:38, for the simple fact that theology is extremely important. Without it being interpreted in context, there is no way we will understand Scripture as it is. If taken out of context, it can be made to say whatever one wanted to say.
I too understand Tiffany's point and the mother of the victim's point. But, as it is written in the Scripture "you will know them by their fruit." And Gilyard's fruit is rotten. That's not to say he cannot be saved. He can if he will admit that he's a sinner and repents. He didn't make a mistake; he sinned and sinned and sinned, habitually. And on that alone proves that his fruit isn’t good. Therefore, Gilyard's pass is his present condition proving the point that there was never a change.
Did King David sin? Yes. Did Solomon sin? Yes. And they both were very sorrowful over their sin calling it what it is "sin" (not a mistake) and they repented. There was a changed life. When God saves us He changes us. We’re not perfect, but we are changed; we’re different and not the same.
So, Mark's correct because we have many listening to the mother and this blog who will believe one can live a life just a Darrell Gilyard has and still be referred to as a Christian. The term Christian is just taken too lightly today. It’s time to be serious about the Word of God.
Yes, Tiffany God can and will use anyone He chooses, but that doesn’t make all the ones that He uses belong to Him in terms of salvation. He used Caiphas, He used a donkey, and He even uses Satan. But does that make them belong to Him?
A person is either saved or not saved. Not saved sometimes and saved at other time. A habitual lifestyle of sin does not indicate that there has been a true changed life (meaning no salvation in the first place). So if Darrell was to go out and be hit by a bus never having come to repentance and salvation for his sins, yes he will be far removed and cast into utter darkness. I pray that he will repent and except the "free" gift of salvation through Jesus THE Christ Lord and Savior of the world.
The verse quoted from 1 John 1:9 is for Believers. John wrote this to us (we-Christians). When we slip into sin and when we repent of our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Let’s all listen, maybe there is something God wants us to learn concerning theology and the importance of it being taken and used in its rightful context.
God Bless
Do you guys think these martyred saints in heaven are sinning by saying this:
Revelation 6
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.
Sometimes we get so tied up in "theology" that we miss the more simple messages...the Bible tells us to come to Him with faith as a child. Children are incapable of theology...
I understand that scripture gets twisted and misused, that is dangerous, but at the same time, God can speak different messages to different people using the same scriptures.
The word is alive and active!
May 22, 2009 12:03 PM
Tiffany, I am afraid it was bad theology that allowed Gilyard to continue for so long. He probably really believes he can be saved and still live in continued sin. We see that many Christians actually believe that, too.
Once again, I state I have been chastised myself and warned against stating that I do not believe he could be saved. It is also a concern of mine...I am not justifying his sin, nor in any way am I stating that I feel salvation is a blanket cover for sin - I do not believe this at all and also think that sin is taken too lightly today as many feel they "are covered" and then sin because they feel they can always pull out the grace card...I think this is wrong.
I agree that when God calls us unto Him, when we repent and receive His salvation it is a transformation. I posted the day of the trial that II Cor. 5:14-15,17 states that he died for all and those who live should no longer live for themselves but for Him who died for them and was raised again...therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
I am not taking this point of view or his salvation lightly - in fact I have talked of it continually throughout the blog...it is a great concern.
It is also of great concern to me how many people have been led astray by Gilyard and have either denounced God all together or are walking around with bad theology and assume they are saved.
Very concerning. Heartbreaking actually.
Also, I do agree that it was bad thrology that allowed Gilyard to get away with this for so long!! I second that!
Tiffany I love you and supported you in your efforts to stop Gilyard! With that said I have to agree with Mark and those responding as Mark has. God left His Book for a reason,and that reason is that man may know what is the "TRUTH" and what is "ERROR"!Without the Bible(Theology)truth is subject to any and everyones opinions! God is TRUTH,and without God there is no TRUTH. Tiffany you know that I sympathize with the mother in her desires and prayers for Darrell; I desire too see Darrell saved; "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked"! But when one comes and makes a public statement that is Biblically incorrect,it is the responsibilty of the discerning believers to publicly address the error,due to the fact that countless people may read it and believe it to be true! The Bible is absolutely clear "That not everyone who says Lord,Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven".The Apostle Paul said "If anyone is in Christ they are "NEW CREATIONS";(That does not mean sinless,but it does mean they "SIN LESS").Their hearts are transformed,and being transformed into the image of Christ.! Further Jesus also stated you will know false shepherds by their "FRUIT"! Again Paul in his letter to the Galatians warned them in Chap.2 of "FALSE BRETHREN" infiltrating the sheep in order to spiritually enslave them. Jesus spoke of as previously mentioned by someone else,"TARES" among the "WHEAT".The Apostle John commanded that "WE"(true sheep)are not to believe every spirit,but "TEST"the spirits to see whether the are from God! Paul commanded that "WE" test everything and hold on the that which is good[1Thess.5:21]! Jesus again warned four times in Matt.24"5,10-11,24 of "FALSE CHRIST,FALSE PROPHETS,and FALSE BRETHREN infecting the true Church(Judas)! Tiffany,literally with possibly the exception of Philemon,every N.T. Book deals in oneway or another with false Prophets,false christ,false brethren and most definetly "FALSE DOCTRINE"!! If their are "false teachers and false brothers among the true brethren; "HOW AM I TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE"? Answer "YOU" will know them by their fruit[Matt.7:16,20].And you will know them by understanding the Bible(Theology)[2Tim.13-17]. Every true believer is being progressivly sanctified to look more and more like Christ! Their hearts have been changed they think differently and act differently. For 20+ years Darrell has preyed on the Lords sheep without ceasing and has never publicly with heart felt remorse apologized. Instead he has enlisted the aid of others,enablers,the knowing and unknowing,the Biblically illiterate to keep him insulated and safe from those who could see that he was a wolf in sheep clothing base on Theology,not feelings! Most of these so-called "PASTORS" for instance,like Gilyard count on the masses remaining Biblically ignorant so as to keep them in power; So as to allow their abuses to continue; And especially so as to fleece the flock for every penny they can con out of them. Got to keep the money coming in you know!!!!!With Darrel unforntunely it took the civil authorities to stop him when the Church by its God given right would'nt do anything to halt his rampage[1Cor.5:1-5,9-12;Rev.2:20-23]. "WHY"; Because most professing Christians are ignorant of "THEOLOGY" and that makes them ripe for the pickings by unscrupulous induviduals like Gilyard!!!
Pastor Rod,
I agree with everything you said...you and I have shared this conversation before and you know that I agree with you, you know where I stand.
But publicly I have been advised (by Godly counsel) not to make such statements and stand in judgement of him publicly that way.
My taking up fo rthe mother is from the perspective that she should not be attacked for what she shared and I do not feel anyone was taking that statement to mean that he is a believer and can go on sinning, he's covered...I think that many have taken her statements and made a case out of them and I think it is being misinterpreted. I asked her permission to share because the message to me is about forgiveness by her to DG despite his actions and despite the fact that he has never shown remorse or asked their forgiveness - with that being said I think there was an extraordinary lesson is this extension by her and I will continue to applaud this.
The courtromm was buzzing, people were applauding - because in the midst of the people realizing who was standing before them (child molester was being murmured around me) this woman got up and gave a message of forgiveness and a call to action to DG - she was not assuming he is saved, she simply made a statement based on some of his own preaching, she used some of us his own misleading messages against him..."sin is an inside job", she admonished him that he is not forgiven of sin UNLESS he repents/confesses and that his pride is getting in the way of that...
I truly believe if she had stood there and stated that he could not be saved based on his actions - everyone would be commenting against that too...and ears would have tuned her out.
I know where she stands, I have heard her heart, she has been through so much and this was a huge thing for her to do. I hope that my asking her permission to use her words has not now hurt her based on this outpour of response.
Tiffany,
I don't think that the mother's word's will hurt her. The point is that her words have to be made clearer than they were. Even if she meant something other than what she said, it still needs to be clarified. Which is what we are trying to do, only to make sure that others completely understand. Again, context is very serious in understanding scripture. And again, one can make righteous judgement concerning Gilyard's salvation based on HIS habitual life of sinning. One can conclude (publicly) that he is lost when you mirror his life to that of the Holy Scriptures. This too is godly counsel from the very mouth of God.
For anyone to say or think that DG or anybody cannot be saved would be judging. I don't believe that was the intent of anyone who commented about the mother's remark at all. No on can say that but God. Because no one knows but God. But, one can say that DG or any other person living a life of habitual sin is at that time not saved. But, if he or anyone else repents there awaits salvation for the soul.
Sometimes we get so tied up in "theology" that we miss the more simple messages...
The problem was more with what you said Tiffany. Yes what the mother said was taken out of context even if DG did say it. It was still taken out of context. But, then you kind of mimimized theology. Yes, we are told to come as children...meaning to be willing to be taught- knowing that eventually we will become mature adults in the faith. Better understanding the Word of God in time.
This is the problem: a lot of preachers make up their own theology and lead many astray or leave them ignorant. False theology has to be combated in the hope that we will all grow and mature in the Lord day by day.
Tiffany I by no means won't to be critical of the mother or you. I won't to make it clear that I'm not judging Darrell as un-saved! But at the same time just because he says he is saved does not means he is saved[cf.Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8].Therefore the only indentifying evidence that we have is what the Word of God reveals to us in spotting them! This is why I said Theology is so important. The Bible gives us a composite of what these unregenerate people or Pastor's look like. You have to wonder why Pastors and preachers don't preach more on these truths considering that Jesus and many of the N.T. passages warn us over and over that as the approach of Christ nears that there will be a flood of false prophets and false christ dotting the landscape and unfortunetly the Bible also reveals that they will be highly successful in their deception[Matt.24:5,11,24]! This is why Jesus stated that you will know them by their fruit! Other passages of Scripture help to expose chracteristics that enable discerning believers as too what these interlopers look like! Blatant habitual unrepentant sin is always a chracteristic of the unregenerate person[1John 1:5-6;3:6-10]! What I am saying is that Darrell's 20+ years of blatant,open,unrepentant sin and the abusing of the people of God are the signs of and unbeliever! The Apostle Paul was not only a blasphemer,but a murderer. Yet when Christ stopped and blinded him on the road to Damascus,Paul did not continue to murder and blaspheme God. There's not one example in Scripture of a true man or women of God displaying a life time of blatant sinful actions with disregard of God! Yes we all still sin because of the flesh's influence(Rom.7),but the true believers mind has been renewed and he begins to sin less[2Cor.5:17]! What we are doing today is lowering the bar to accomodate mans love of darkness! With the bar lowered we can now entertain and indulge in sins that earlier Christian would have abhored. As a matter of facts lets not talk about sin at all is the message I AM HEARING FROM MOST OF OUR PULPITS,easy believism,watered down theology,plastic feel good platitudes that stir the emotions,but build no strong,stable theological foundation to increase our knowledge of God and His desires for how we live! And that is why the Darrell's of the world will continue to pilfer the unlearned and the indifferent believers! Tiffany I have a motto: "DEFECTIVE THEOLOGY,LEADS TO DEFECTIVE THINKING,THAT LEADS TO DEFECTIVE LIVING"!!! There's no way to avoid that formula! Love You to the max in Christ!!!
One thing leads to another and things are misunderstood...I am not meaning to belittle theology in any way and that was not the best way to present it, my mistake.
What I mean is that the simpler message that I was trying to show (the reason for posting her comments) was that the message of forgiveness was expressed in the midst of the crisis, and then the irony of the fact that she was speaking to her former shepherd (wolf in sheep's clothing)...
I am not going to respond anymore though (smile) because I am apparently not doing a very good job of explaining...and I don't want to come across the way I apparently am right now...sorry for the confusion, I was trying to clear it up but I think I made it worse, smile.
Going out for a bit, best to leave this alone...
I agree with some of what you bible scholars are saying. Satan knew the Word, true, however we cannot judge salvation. We all have our opinions based on what people do but who really knows? Test the spirit by the spirit but in what spirit are you testing when you test?
Once saved always saved. If this is not true, then Jesus died for nothing. I think the point the woman was making is she would not hold malice in her heart for him and she has forgiven him. Context is so important. God will complete a good work if Gilyard is saved. I am not defending the man, however no one knows if a person is saved or not even if they act a fool. When we say that most of the time we are comparing the person to ourselves. I have been guilty of that in the past.
Let’s not turn this blog into the attack the victim’s mother. I have known her for years and I know she does not mean it the way many of you are reading into what was written. Let it die. The families of Gilyard and of the victims have suffered enough. Fill this blog with praise that God saw this event through with Gilyard and Gilard was stopped.
Collins
Let's be honest people: When we mess up we do not say, "I have sinned!" We say we made a mistake. Sin is sin, whether its minor or major. Gilyard sinned. he doesn't get it yet, but He will and if he doesn't he'll continue to pay the price however God sees fit.
To the mother, I thank God for your perseverance and courage to hang in there with this case. I'm sure after more than a year, you are relieved that this is finally coming to a close.
God bless you and your family as well as other victims who did not come forward or was of age when it happened to them.
Toni
Yes Collins, let it die because we are not gonna agree. The Word has spoken though.
Amen!
Collins
"As a matter of facts lets not talk about sin at all is the message I AM HEARING FROM MOST OF OUR PULPITS,easy believism,watered down theology,plastic feel good platitudes that stir the emotions,but build no strong,stable theological foundation to increase our knowledge of God and His desires for how we live!"
Pastor Rod, Another thing we are seeing is that many pastors are now defining sin for themselves. For example, we are hearing that any criticism/questioning/dissent of the pastor is a sin. Touch not think anointed is preached as protection for pastors quite a bit now. We are being told that blogging is a sin. Matthew 18 has been taught to mean we must approach a pastor in private about his PUBLIC teaching and/or behavior which is not true.
I think you get my drift...
Mark
I don't see this as a personal attack on the mother. The attack is on what was said.
Sorry, just shedding light that's all. No harm intended. Praise God for the mother.
Have a good night
"I agree with some of what you bible scholars are saying. Satan knew the Word, true, however we cannot judge salvation."
We have all made it clear that we are speaking of fruit. Which scripture says we CAN judge. Think about it, Paul had never even met the man in 1 Corin 5 but by reports from Chloe's people, he told them to kick him out of church so he could be SAVED. He was judging from afar.
"We all have our opinions based on what people do but who really knows? Test the spirit by the spirit but in what spirit are you testing when you test?"
The scripture is our guide. The Holy Spirit teaches us through the Word.
"Once saved always saved."
No. IF saved, always saved.
It is very important for folks to understand Justification/Sanctfication. A person who is saved has a regenerated heart. Responding to an invitation, saying a prayer and even being baptized does not mean one is saved. If you believe that, you do not understand Matthew 5-7.
"I think the point the woman was making is she would not hold malice in her heart for him and she has forgiven him. Context is so important."
I agree with this. And I pray her forgiveness is used to convict his heart and he repents. Because her forgiveness can be used of God to convict our persecutors but it will NOT save Gilyard.
" God will complete a good work if Gilyard is saved. I am not defending the man, however no one knows if a person is saved or not even if they act a fool. When we say that most of the time we are comparing the person to ourselves. I have been guilty of that in the past."
No, you have not been reading here and just are parroting what some preacher has told you. AGain: No one knows who will be saved in the END. Jesus Christ allows the wheat to grow with the tares. BUT, we are taught to inspect fruit. Gilyard's is rotten and if you LOVE him, you will not affirm to him that he can consider himself saved without repentance.
"Let’s not turn this blog into the attack the victim’s mother."
No one has attacked anyone. That is a strawman and I am so sorry you felt the need to say that. We are trying to defend the Gospel to professing Christians! That is what makes this so very sad.
I praise God she spoke of forgiveness. I am also very concerned that folks there will think that Gilyard has always been saved and could do this and expect eternal life with without repentance. Tiffany has cleared it up that the mother did tell him he must repent. I am so grateful to know that.
No one is attacking anyone, Collins. People are so offended with the truth. We are told that in scripture, too. The Cross is offensive. And when we are faced with situations like this it becomes even more offensive because we are dealing with folks who have been shepherds and lived a lie.
Mark
I understand Mark.
Peace
C
God will have the last word.
Why is it that people can't just read Tiffany's post for what it was intended to be: a celebration of light in the midst of so much darkness. Here she describes a woman who has every reason to be bitter, hateful, and judgmental and what does she do? She extends forgiveness and grace NOT judgment and arrogance. So what happens in this comment thread? THE EXACT OPPOSITE! What pride there is in those who feel always necessary to "one-up" the previous comment with their so-called better understanding of truth. It's sad really....a beautiful moment in a courtroom has been turned to a ridiculous debate on things that are at best unknowable anyway. Feel free to respond but know that I have nothing more to say on the matter and refuse to get sucked further into this battle of which one has a better theological understanding of life.
Why is it that people can't just read Tiffany's post for what it was intended to be: a celebration of light in the midst of so much darkness. Here she describes a woman who has every reason to be bitter, hateful, and judgmental and what does she do? She extends forgiveness and grace NOT judgment and arrogance. So what happens in this comment thread? THE EXACT OPPOSITE! What pride there is in those who feel always necessary to "one-up" the previous comment with their so-called better understanding of truth. It's sad really....a beautiful moment in a courtroom has been turned to a ridiculous debate on things that are at best unknowable anyway.
John F. you miss the point as well. We only trying reason. But if you want to label it 'one up or arrogance," that's okay. I've been called worst. I pray that one day you to shall realize just how VERY IMPORTANT 'TRUTH' is.Sad as well
"So what happens in this comment thread? THE EXACT OPPOSITE! What pride there is in those who feel always necessary to "one-up" the previous comment with their so-called better understanding of truth."
You have wrongly judged me and others on this thread. We are concerned. Very concerned about wrong doctrines leading to wrong beliefs. Thinking one is saved when they display rotten fruit is nothing to ignore. It is about eternal life. Serious, serious, stuff.
But you pronounce good as evil. And evil as good. Judging motives and calling us prideful. What does that make you? If you are saying truth does not matter because feelings are at stake then no pastor had better preach truth.
" It's sad really....a beautiful moment in a courtroom has been turned to a ridiculous debate on things that are at best unknowable anyway. "
That is a lie. Truth is knowable. God made sure of that by sending the Holy Spirit AND His Word to us.
"Feel free to respond but know that I have nothing more to say on the matter and refuse to get sucked further into this battle of which one has a better theological understanding of life."
What else is worth knowing? As a matter of fact, the more we probe the wonders of God, the more we realize how little we know. But He has made sure that we can know the way of salvation and sanctification.
If we truly love the Lord, these discussions would drive us to the
Word, prayerfully considering and meditating on each word of truth.
My heart is deceitful. I know this because scripture teaches me that. I would rather get in on the good feelings and not worry so much about truth. But I know my carnal heart, that I fight daily, will gladly lead me astray.
Mark
I like what Mark said on another post and I would like to echo it here:
So what happens in this comment thread? THE EXACT OPPOSITE! What pride there is in those who feel always necessary to "one-up" the previous comment with their so-called better understanding of truth."
Enough said!
Toni
Hi this is Isaias Miranda. there are powerful statements in your blog. God is been preaching all over the world, that means Jesus Christ is about to come back as He said. go on and you'll be blessed and your generations. my blog: saias-80.blogspot.com
American capitalist church syndrome, is that what happened?
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